It's all in the mind, you know

[dreamer_easy]

I've been reading some of The Science of False Memory by C.J. Brainerd and V.F. Reyna. Their review of research into the implanting of false memories is pretty convincing - it is possible to convince people to remember things that didn't happen to them, to the point where they can tell you details about non-existent events. What isn't clear, from their review, is whether you can actually traumatise a patient by implanting false memories of severe trauma, such as childhood sexual abuse; or whether you can attach incorrect memories to the symptoms (such as PTSD) or a trauma that did happen (eg, the wrong perpetrator). As the authors point out, you can hardly experiment on people to find out; the research they review involves mildly distressing "memories", such as getting lost.

The discussion of self-hypnosis, imagination, etc, brought into focus an unrelated issue for me: what if my spirituality is only a symptom of my mental illness? I'm trying to think this through, even as I type this entry. I don't confuse what I know through spiritual experience with what I know through everyday experience - I can be certain about the latter, but never about the former. To put it more simply, if I see the winning lottery numbers in a dream I'm still not buying a ticket. :-) To put it another way, my thoughts about the Divine are changeable in a way that the speed of light isn't. But what if my entire way of making sense of the world comes from a kind of brain static?

Comments

[zeusgirl.livejournal.com]

Hey Kate,

Not sure if you know, but my PhD is on memory and memory processes. I am not an expert in false memory, but it's an area I am extremely interested in.

I would suggest it is pretty traumatic to have a false memory - if you suddenly "retrieve" a memory of chilhood sexual abuse at the hands of a family member, and accuse them, it's going to strain your relationship with them.

It's also traumatising because we think our memories are so, so secure, and yet they aren't. If you tell someone that they experienced a false memory, that you implanted it, their first reaction will often be denial. They will insist it did happen, that they remembered it.

If you're interested, I suggest reading some of Elizabeth Loftus's work. She's one of the experts in the field. I also went to some interesting seminars on false memory at a recent conference on Memory I attended. The researchers there had some cool stuff to say about recovered/repressed memory.

I do think your second point, remembering things incorrectly, is also possible. Difficult to test it empirically with traumatic memories, but there is lab research and anecdotal to suggest that we aren't always correct in our attribution of the source of a memory.

Classic case, a woman was assaulted, and was able to produce a sketch of the man she insisted she was attacked. The man - a local cognitive psychologist - was arrested. However, he had an airtight alibi. He had been live on television during the attack. His face was familiar to the woman, but for the wrong reasons.

I wish I could remember where I read that. I wish I had a source for it.

Hope that helps/is interesting/hasn't put you to sleep.

If you're interested, drop me an e-mail (google me!), and I can look for some academic papers on the subject.

[antikythera.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's a correlation between spirituality and mental illness. Plenty of 'sane' people have spiritual experiences, but that doesn't prove that the experiences are real; plenty of people with mental illness have spiritual experiences, but that doesn't prove they're not real.

Anyone can have an experience like that, and can interpret it as real or not-real. Brain static exists, in both spiritual and non-spiritual people. Everybody dreams, everybody has those little half-asleep moments where they get jolted awake by someone calling their name (don't they?), so it makes sense that some things that might be interpreted as spiritual beliefs could actually be a result of that stuff. Spiritual people are not exempt from the funny little hiccups of neurology. It's up to you and your beliefs whether you interpret a given experience as real or 'just a dream'.

When I was a teenager, my pony had to be euthanized, and a few nights later as I was falling asleep I thought she was talking to me from ... wherever dead ponies go. I was a pretty spiritual person at the time, but even then I wasn't sure if I believed what I was perceiving. When it was over, I recognized that it could very well have been a half-waking dream based on wishes. I'm even less inclined now to 'believe' in it than I was at the time.

[lillibet.livejournal.com]

But what if my entire way of making sense of the world comes from a kind of brain static?

Well, to think of it one way, of course it does--that's what consciousness is :)

There is some evidence (sorry, in too much of a rush to do a thorough search for it) that religious feelings/perceptions do have physical atttributes within the brain. That is, there are parts of the brain that light up when nuns are praying/monks meditating and some speculation that these are either "religious experience generators" or perhaps "religious antennae" allowing those who have these experiences to tune in on something not readily available to those in whom these areas are less developed. There's also been at least one study suggesting that a tendency toward religious belief is genetic. So yeah, it does look like there are brain influences on belief that might well include both structure and chemistry, and surely your illness colors your perceptions of the world around you and within you. But regardless of its provenance, this is your way of making sense of the world and while questioning that is always interesting, it doesn't mean that the world you're making sense of is in question.

[qthewetsprocket.livejournal.com]

what if my spirituality is only a symptom of my mental illness?

*ponders, as this is a question i didn't even know i'd been asking myself until now*

1. what if it is? - well, it might not be such a bad thing...if it helps you make sense of things and be more at peace with the world (as research suggests), then i would definitely call it a Good Thing and a Useful Coping Mechanism. (and if it turns out not to be true in the end, well, i don't think you'll be too worried about it by then anyway). :)

2. what if it isn't? - maybe the divine wanted you to have access to certain insights, and the only way to do that was to tweak your brains a little? that might not be so bad either; except for the part where you feel like a complete and utter prat trying to describe a spiritual experience to someone else.

either way, i wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. :)

as long as, you know, little voices don't suddenly appear in your head and start telling you to assassinate any especially mendacious world leaders or anything. cause we all know how completely terrible it would be if that happened. oh my no. heavens forbid.

[irritant01.livejournal.com]

what if my spirituality is only a symptom of my mental illness?

I think you've encountered a classic, yet unique, crisis of faith! But you might as well also ask "what if my spirituality is only a symptom of being conscious"?

If the comfort, strength and clarity that your spirituality provides you are valauble, then I suspect where it comes from doesn't matter.

Call me if yu want to discuss it :)

[mrteufel.livejournal.com]

Y'know, sometimes I've wondered if my atheism is caused by depression. I mean this seriously. I was quite a believer for my first 30 years, then...

Then again, it could have been the antidepression medication, because I "undiscovered" god about the same time as I started medical treatment for depression...

But I'm not sure of the order of events, it's a dozen or more years ago...