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Choose Your Own Adventure book icons. You will never think of the books the same way again.

Early incursion by the evil Pomeranian Empire.

21 year old Australian chess grandmaster!

A survey on young Australians' religious beliefs (about a third don't have any).

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The SMH thing about non-belief has some interesting terminology:

'The research showed 31 per cent of youths aged 13 to 17 were non-believers - a significant drop from previous generations.'

It's a significant *rise* in non-believers, of course. You can just
about squint and get away with that, but then there's ...

'While there were no comparable figures to show the size of the drop of non-believers, anecdotally it was a big decline, she said.'

OK ... now the increasing numbers of atheists is not just a 'drop' it's also a 'decline'. Imagine it was a survey of ethnic mix instead of belief, and there had been a significant increase in the number of 'non whites'. If the editor had characterised that as a 'decline', would he still be the editor this morning?

Also, the questioning is clearly skewed. After inviting Christians to self-identify, it then asks to say if they do charitable work. (I suspect that questionnaire didn't define terms - someone who spent a year teaching poor kids in Africa to read and someone else who seriously thought about putting a dollar in a collecting tin could both say 'yes'). The problem with that approach is neatly spelled out here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yhN1IDLQjo

The survey was carried out by that well known neutral party when it comes to the value of religion the Australian Catholic University. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the poll was *designed* to create the impression that non-believers are selfish.

The survey was a joint project between Monash and the ACU; I think it's fair to be concerned about bias. However, I wouldn't at all be surprised if people involved in organised community religion participate more in the community, if only through having many more opportunities to do so.

Intuitively it makes sense that more young people would be atheists than before, but if we don't have those comparable figures, how can we be sure?

You're mistaken about the survey questionnaire, which is available online for your perusal.

ETA: So is a summary of the findings.

Edited 2008-02-01 11:09 (UTC)

There are a couple other pieces of sleight of hand aimed at the non-Christian theists. What does 'those with serious spiritual and religious beliefs' mean?

'At least 47 per cent of those aged 13 to 17 identified themselves as Christians. About 15 per cent classified themselves as New Age and 7 per cent as having "other" beliefs.'

Hmmmm. Care to guess whether a 'New Age' believer counts as a 'serious' one in the eyes of researchers from a Catholic university?

But the big trick is here:

'Researchers found that active Christians rated helping others and social justice higher than other spirituality types and that teenagers serious about their spirituality were more likely to be volunteers.'

The word 'active' is the key one, there. At best, it's meaningless. But again, it's the Yes Minister problem. If you've just defined yourself as a Christian, you're not then going to admit you're not an 'active' one - particularly when you get to define 'active'. And it doesn't say how *much* 'more likely' it is.

At worst, though, it's doing exactly what religious types always accuse 'the secular media' of doing - taking the extreme as the norm. Someone who shoots a doctor who performs abortions is 'more likely' to define themselves as 'an active Christian' than someone who doesn't. But it doesn't mean that everyone who is a Christian will shoot a doctor.

This is a poll *designed* to give the results it does.

The poll I would like to see (and perhaps people reading this might want to answer):

1) Give the dates of the last three times you attended a religious service or ceremony involving you and at least two other people solely to perform an act of worship.

2) Give the dates of the last three times you prayed to your deity or performed a similar private religious ritual.

3) Please give an honest estimate of the dates of the last three times you donated money or time to charity. Please specify the amount of money/time.

4) Give three examples of how your religious beliefs affect your daily routine or behaviour.

Please be aware that for question 3, we may require documentary proof. Please amend your answers if you feel that will be a problem.

5) Did you amend your answer to question 3? YES/NO

6) Do you believe that your religious beliefs entitle you to special treatment in law or that certain laws and other societal norms don't apply to you because of your beliefs? YES/NO

7) Do you believe that you, personally, have faced persecution or discrimination because of your religion? YES/NO

8) How many people you come into contact with would you estimate share your beliefs? NONE/FEW/MANY/MOST/ALL

9) How many people in the world would you estimate share your beliefs? NONE/FEW/MANY/MOST/ALL

10) Is the question 'is there a god?' a complicated one? YES/NO

I talk to spiders. Could you let me know what sort of documentary proof of this spiritually-motivated behaviour would be acceptable?

I'm completely serious. I'll do you a photo if you like.

The documentary proof was only for the charitable giving - and it's not actually asking for that documentary proof. The original question asks for an 'honest estimate', but there's no mechanism for checking that honesty.

It's like asking 'did you break the speed limit yesterday?' then 'we have a speed camera on that stretch of road, would you like to revise your previous answer?'.

The problem with these polls is that people will always portray themselves as virtuous. Everyone thinks they're a better than average driver. No one, when asked, is going to say 'I do nothing, at all for my fellow man'.

The problem with these polls is that people will always portray themselves as virtuous.

That's true. But wouldn't it be true of Secular and New Age folks as well as Christians?

Say, I wonder if I count as New Age under their classification, or whether I can claim to follow a Traditional World Religion.

You talking to spiders doesn't worry me.

It's the thought that they might be listening...and plotting....that worries.

(sics Fuu on them just in case)

(sounds of spidery death)

"I'll teach YOU to plot to take over the earth and trick Jon Pertwee into an entire episode of pointless car chases!"

I'm not worried until they start talking back.

To be fair to the spiders, wasn't the entire episode of pointless car chases actually Jon Pertwee's idea to begin with?

Of course, most of the charity I perform could not be verified by documentation.... but it is charity none the less.

Charity's between me and the recipient and the gods, an idea I stole from Christianity. If some berk rang me up and demanded the paperwork, I'd tell him where he could put his survey.

I can only imagine the guy on the corner's response if I followed with "I'd like a receipt for that..." ;)

Thanks for that icon link, BTW. Much love, there! :D

Early incursion by the evil Pomeranian Empire.

puppy! *squoos*

boggling over how much win the cyoa icons are made of, too. acid trip indeed.

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