Martha, Martha

[dreamer_easy]

I was looking up Martha in the Bible and found Luke 10:38-42. As a spiritual person, I totally get this. (There's a similar Buddhist story, about the herder who's in a panic over his lost sheep - the Buddha quips to his disciples, "Aren't you lucky you don't have any sheep?). As a feminist I'm like WAAGH! If Martha also sits at Jesus' feet, who's going to make his dinner?

ETA: Aha! I can post to LJ if I keep it short!

ETA: Have a look at this very readable essay on Interpretations of Luke 10:38-42.

Comments

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Well, I would have been *tempted* to do so, but I probably would have glared at him and told him if he wanted dinner, then he could damn well help cook himself.

[purrdence.livejournal.com]

The lost new testiment story, where Jesus turns a bunch of carrots into a four course dinner.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Hey, that's right. He *could* have helped out, with very little effort! That God, he's an inconsiderate guest.

[murasaki-1966.livejournal.com]

I feel sorry for Matha (as I'm a bit of a Martha myself). All these people turn up, need feeding, and her sister drops her share to talk to the cute(pssibly) bearded guy. No one offers to give her a hand.

[pedanther]

One of my favourite apocryphal tales of the Holy Grail is the one invented by Tom Holt for his novel Grailblazers, which tells of what happened after Martha cornered Jesus and his posse as they were leaving the Last Supper and told them they weren't going anywhere until they'd lent a hand with the washing up.


More seriously, *did* Jesus want dinner? I mean, did Martha even ask him before she got launched? Maybe he'd just dropped in for a chat, and was annoyed that Martha wouldn't keep still long enough for a proper conversation.

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

Martha cornered Jesus and his posse as they were leaving the Last Supper and told them they weren't going anywhere until they'd lent a hand with the washing up.

Love. It.

More seriously, *did* Jesus want dinner? I mean, did Martha even ask him before she got launched?

In a culture where "someone walking in my front door" = "OMG must provide meal NOW!" she almost certainly didn't. Learning that made a huge difference in my reading of the passage.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

told them they weren't going anywhere until they'd lent a hand with the washing up.

Hee! I need to read that, then. I think the last Tom Holt I read was Expecting Someone Taller (http://www.amazon.com/Expecting-Someone-Taller-Tom-Holt/dp/1857231813/ref=sr_1_15/002-7683317-5724040?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180832066&sr=8-15).

Hmm, I think offering food and drink to guest was standard courtesy in those days. Remember Peter's mother-in-law, who as soon as she is cured gets up (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%208:14-22&version=31;) and starts making dinner for the whole crew?

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[murasaki-1966.livejournal.com]

Jesus could have been making the point that by following him, Mary (and other women) were free of the rules of society that bound them. Remember this guy hung out with tax collecters and lepers, both unclean in Jewish society of that time. He talked to women as equals (Gospel of Thomas), and if some of the books that were left out of the bible are to be believed, trusted his most important teachings to Mary Magedelene.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I think this is the best face that can be put on it - that Jesus is saying "Never mind the housework, there are more important things." If so, that's a liberating message. (I'm curious now how the passage has been interpreted, traditionally and more recently.)

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

(I'm curious now how the passage has been interpreted, traditionally and more recently.)

Me too! As an American Catholic kid in the 70s and early 80s, "there are more important things" was definitely pointed out to me as the message we were supposed to be taking away from it. I'm pretty sure I remember it being connected to the passages of calling disciples away from their practical pursuits -- "Come with me and be fishers of men," etc. Sort of in a similar vein to what murasaki_1966 says above.

IIRC, it still didn't sit well at the time, because the lessons were never very good at addressing the disconnect between "this is CCD, which they used to call catechism, which is where you learn the rules" and "Jesus keeps saying there are more important things than the rules, but we're not defining them all that well."

I actually went back to it long after leaving the Church. Lately it reminds me of one good friend in particular who used knock herself out making tons of food, or even try to clean my house, in order to feel that she "deserved" to be there, when I would have been perfectly happy to have her just sit and talk. It took her years and years to move past that. I should ask her thoughts on that passage; she was raised in a very conservative Church of Christ environment, and has some very strong opinions and interesting insights about what was useful and what was damaging in the way things were taught there.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

That's how I've always taken it. He speaks to her by name, in a soothing and entreating (but not, I think, patronizing) way; he identifies and acknowledges her feelings of stress and worry; and then he offers to lift that burden from her, by encouraging her to sit and rest and focus on the spiritual instead of wearing herself to a frazzle over her social obligations.

We also know from other passages that Mary, Martha and their brother Lazarus were close friends of Jesus -- he wasn't saying these words to a stranger, but to a woman he knew well and with whom he had a positive relationship.

[murasaki-1966.livejournal.com]

Good point.

[(Anonymous)]

"Jesus' rebuke to Martha sounds like "you get back in the kitchen, dear, with the other servants, while i chat up your more intelligent (and possibly prettier) sister.""

What? I thought he told her not to go back in the kitchen?

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Nope. (There's a link to the relevant passages in my OP.)

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Jesus phones for a curry!

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[hergrace.livejournal.com]

Actually -- he does *not* tell Martha that Mary is better. He tells her that Mary has *chosen* better. Martha's not complaining about *what* she's doing; she's just upset that Mary isn't helping like she's *supposed* to. Now I'm going to have to ponder the other things I've heard about this story and share them.

Stay tuned...

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[murasaki-1966.livejournal.com]

Amen to that.

[cryptile.livejournal.com]

I always hated that story as a kid. Yeah, Martha; that'll teach you to be a considerate host!

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

As a feminist I'm like WAAGH! If Martha also sits at Jesus' feet, who's going to make his dinner?

This one bugged me like crazy when I was a kid, until I realized he wasn't actually telling Martha that was she was doing was wrong, or that what Mary was doing was necessarily better for anyone but Mary. I had this lightbulb of reading it as "Don't guilt-trip her for not doing what you think is most important."

Martha is flipping out in classic "Why do I have to do everything around here???" mode, and the answer is "Because you're the one who has the investment in its being done that way." Social mores dictate hospitality, and that hospitality = plenty of food, but Jesus can be read as saying "I promise I won't starve to death before your eyes if you slow down a little."

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I had this lightbulb of reading it as "Don't guilt-trip her for not doing what you think is most important."

That's a very interesting interpretation of it - one that can relate to a million things in modern life.