Dreamer Easy

Everyone says he was suicidal, but... he was smiling, laughing, trying not to get killed. He was capable of instant bonding with a random human being and had a full range of emotions all episode. That's not suicidal, that's trying and succeeding to cover sadness with joy.

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Thinking back, it's more like Rose is the Tenth Doctor's blankie - the one who provides him with a new family, for instance. The Ninth Doctor's terribly damaged, but I wouldn't have thought Rose was the analgesic he needed... I wonder if you can read it as the Doctor gradually opening up, only to have his new relationship - the only one he has in the universe, basically - ripped away again?

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He doesn't even seem closed off, though. There's a lot of "tell" involved, not least in the way Rose heals Nine when from the looks of it that's the result of accidental and later less-accidental meetings with the demons in his head. Jabe is the one who catharts him on the death of Gallifrey, the Daleks taunt him into refusing to see himself as a killer. Rose doesn't even necessarily know what he's done, let alone talks to him about it.

As for Ten... when it's not telling us how much he needs Rose he's fine with wandering off and he builds deep relationship fast with other people. If she'd left at Christmas or with Mickey he'd have felt wistfully sad for a week and then moved on safe in the knowledge that she was fine and happy and with cheery memories of their time together.

In conclusion, the very worst thing Rose Tyler could have done is refuse to leave the Doctor voluntarily. The seond-worst thing would be to refuse to let him have another friend around just on the off chance that something happened to her.

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I've seen (and experienced) suicidal tendencies being expressed _exactly_ like that. It's hard to stereotype just how a suicidal tendency will be expressed; that's probably why so many people are surprised when someone they know does commit suicide- it's hard to spot sometimes that it's going to happen.

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Oooo.... I'LL be his blankie!!!

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lordshiva.livejournal.com

Because she was his first companion post the destruction of his entire homeworld and family.

I'm just going to go with that and hope Rusty does too:-) I feel as if the destruction of "his entire homeworld and family" should play a role this year. The timing is right. Like I said in my lj, Rose is safe with her family. He's said it to Donna and to Martha - as if reassuring himself of it - but he never again will be with his family (whatever family is to a time lord.) Blood and family. Themes, I think?

(I have a feeling this may be addressed next week.) Why next week in particular?

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Boe da boom ba! :-)

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pbristow.livejournal.com

Four words for The Lonely God:

a) "You're just a jerk!"

b) "Get over it, mopey!"

c) "You... are... not... Ooh look, shiny!" [DIES]

Place your bets now, folks. =:o}

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pescivendolo.livejournal.com

I'm voting for "Your mother's a Dalek."

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matthewwolff.livejournal.com

Penelope?! ;)

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miss-gate.livejournal.com

Kindly leave me out of this!

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jonquil.livejournal.com

Grow UP, Time Lord!

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big-n-happy.livejournal.com

I agree totally, and I've argued that position before, but the text hasn't clarified that. She's special in a general sense because of her love for adventure etc, making her a companion. She's special as a companion for largely circumstantial reasons; he needed a crux after the Time War, and Sarah Jane's return prompted his attempt at a proper goodbye in Doomsday.

But, there's stuff that seems to say otherwise, particularly since intentional shipping is new to DW. Why does that name keep him fighting? RTD's press burblings haven't helped, at times.

I keep saying this, but if it's handled right it'll become a non-issue by the time we're thinking about Martha's replacement. Human Nature and the probable Time Lord return keep me vaguely optimistic, particularly since The Master could be used to demonstrate why he's The Doctor.

Also. Icon. DW/Alanis OTP!

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DW/Alanis OTP!

I like how, on that icon, the quote can be interpreted multiple ways. >:-)

I agree the text hasn't made it clear, and it *is* clear from the text (and RTD's comments) that they really were terrific mates, they really clicked. But it's also clear that Rose was only one of many: the Doctor's Rose-centredness has been constantly challenged, most recently by the sonic screwdriver gag and by his pissing off Martha. So I think it all has hugely to do with Gallifrey, and it seems pretty obvious we'll be getting a big dose of that this season. So fingers crossed.

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waterfall8484

Just because I'm curious... what "sonic screwdriver gag"?

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In Smith and Jones, the sonic screwdriver is wrecked, and the Doctor is distraught for about three seconds ("I love my sonic screwdriver!") before tossing it away. At the end of the story, he has a new one.

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In Smith and Jones, the sonic screwdriver is wrecked, and ...... At the end of the story, he has a new one.

I definitely saw that (ie the second part) coming - and foolishly thought for a moment that the 'new' one may return to the "classic" design.

(Bit of throwaway dialogue to the effect that he acquired a more advanced model some time between the TVM and "Rose", and this one has been gathering dust in the toolbox ever since.)

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So I think it all has hugely to do with Gallifrey

What's "Gallifrey"?

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It means "They that walk in the shadows".

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Oh, that thing the Doctor's mentioned once and only cried a single tear for? Bah, he doesn't care about that!

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(I'd tabulate a list of Gallifrey mentions here, but can't be arsed, so take it as read.)

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(INT. TARDIS, we join our heroes at the end of a long discussion that's too interesting to see all of.)

MARTHA: So anyway, I'm very sorry about your girlfriend leaving you.

DOCTOR: Thanks, that means a lot to me.

MARTHA: That's the angst dealt with then, yeah?

DOCTOR: Yeah. Well, other than the other stuff.

MARTHA: ..."other stuff"?

DOCTOR: I've never mentioned this to you, but all my people are dead, including my entire family. Kids, grandkids, siblings, spouse. I blew up my planet. That was kind of sad. Oh, and did I ever tell you about Madame de Pompadour?

(MARTHA smacks THE DOCTOR inna face)

DOCTOR: Stop flirting with me, woman!

MARTHA: Talk to the hand, it's got a degree in psychology.

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but the text hasn't clarified that

Bingo. It's like everything else has been eaten.

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mousagetes.livejournal.com

Why does that name keep him fighting?

Because she’s :so alive," and she’s with her whole family, a family that’s actually growing, not diminished or dead or lessened except by his absence, which was inevitable anyway.

I think he misses Rose and it really is bittersweet at times, but there’s joy there, too, because he restored something and made it more than complete. Now it’s Rose+Mikey+Jackie+Pete+NewTyler, where once there was just listless Rose and lonely Jackie, so in a sense he gets to be the god of creation rather than emo-destruction this time, and it must feel pretty damn good to know that he can fight the big fight knowing it won’t always wreck havoc on a small human scale.

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Oh, that's lovely!

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big-n-happy.livejournal.com

That's one interpretation. It fits perfectly, and I like it.

But I still think they're being thematically coy; overstating certain bits, ignoring others. It's an arc, so we'll see how it goes!

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grimorie.livejournal.com

I agree with this. It's not that Rose is the most special person in the world. Rose fan that I am, I know she has faults. But it's her placement in the Doctor's life that makes her important to him.

She helped him get past a pretty dark time in his life and I think the end of season 1 makes an important point of showing that. He's not over it, of course, he'll never be over it. It's that big vacuum in his life that nothing and no one can ever feel. And, he's made her out to be some sort of anchor because of that but the hurt over losing Gallifrey will always be there.

It won't fade but he's familiar with it now, knows how to hide it deeper. Right now, though, losing Rose is a new hurt so its so closer to the surface. I'm sure when time comes and Martha leaves he'll mourn for her the same way.

Okay, maybe not the same way but the same degree.

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morgaine-nicely.livejournal.com

i dont even think it'd be to the same degree, atleast not what we're seeing with these past two shows ya know?

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I think it will be cos why break what works?

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waterfall8484

This is exactly what I've been thinking too... of course he'll become especially attatched to her! And now she's also the first companion that he's lost after the destruction of Gallifrey, which must have stirred up a whole bunch of unplesant memories.

And, well, if he has to choose between mourning everything he's ever lost and one human girl/companion/whatever, he'll probably focus on the (contextually) smallest loss (i.e. Rose), because remembering and grieving for everything else would probably break him.

So we have him remembering and mourning Rose and not being ready to move on because then he'll once again have to focus on him having killed his planet. Someone mentioned Martha commenting on the Doctor's "rebound" in the next episode, and you're probably right (I hope) that the whole "Gallifrey go boom" will be mentioned then. And hopefully Martha will be there to help him like Rose was earlier.

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morgaine-nicely.livejournal.com

yeah i really hope they finally deal with some of the Gallifrey stuf i like your thought :)

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Which is not, in any way, clear in the text. It feels like a stretch and it shouldn't because it's the plotline that's ongoing and, yes, more important. The Doctor has mentioned no one else, including his "adoptive family", has not mentioned the war and Gallifrey (a word that wouldn't cause ache...), and we're left with a standard romantic movie story of some guy getting over his lost love. No hint that this is his eternal tragedy, no suggestion that for him there will never be true solace.

And in two full years we never had any recognition in text that Rose's importance rests on circumstance, which doesn't help here when Martha's compared negatively to a girl who was in the right place at the right time. It feels like special dispensation is unfairly being made for a character we know Rusty could seem far too fond of his own good (it's Whathisname that fucked it up in tSC though).

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ladynyssa.livejournal.com

I would like to agree with you kateorman. The ninth is daamged and she does help him getting him to trust and open up.
For the Tenth, I find Rose becoming more a part of him. He realizes that he is alone and that if he wants she'll be there with him for as long as he wants. With her is doesn't have to ne alone and that someone can care for him. Granted she gets ripped away, but that is what the big guys felt needed to be done. I guess more dramatic...
Personally I was unset that they did that. I was enjoying watching their relationship grow.

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redstarrobot.livejournal.com

It's older-fandom's pet theory, and how they rationalize the way Rose is put on a pedestal versus the other companions they had emotionally invested in (and ones, like Susan, that the Doctor should have logically emotionally invested in). It wouldn't be the worst tactic for the show to use in order to make room for Martha with the audience's affection, although there's the possibility it could backfire and actually crowd her out instead, by leaving the impression that Martha will never live up to that, even if it was just a right-place-right-time issue. There are two issues, one with the groundwork laid in the series - it's unclear that it has been, although that hasn't stopped them before - and the other is that emo is not actually in and of itself the basis of gripping drama, or even gripping character interactions. It's more the realm of melodrama, which ultimately feels hollower and less satisfying, and it's an emotional note that's been hit almost to the point of eye-rolling comedy, IMO, so I'm not really looking forward to another round of it, whether or not it's to accomplish a character development goal to which I'm sympathetic. There's a reasonable purpose for doing it, but I can't help but feel that it's taking the easy way out, dramatically, and going for emotional cheap thrills.

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pirate-fae.livejournal.com

While I totally agree with the theory that 10 has a greater attachment to Rose because she came to him as his first companion after the Time War, I have two other trains of thought on the subject.

a) I wonder if The Doctor's own mortality is starting to creep up on him. Each regeneration brings him closer to the realization that he is not immortal, just hyper-mortal. He can only regenerate twice more now, and that 12th regeneration may be... a bit... problematic... ;-)

As the series wore on, It seemed to me each regeneration seemed to get more and more attached emotionally to his companions. The last series companion we saw was Ace and I'd argue that The Doctor was as attached to her as he is to Rose. It's hard to say how long and hard he would have grieved had she died and stayed dead, but she came back and went on to live a full life even after she left him.

b) Which leads to the other thought. The Doctor hasn't lost (as in gone forever, can't get them back) a companion since Adric (and there was only one other before him...not that I can remember her name). Is part of his grief that she's really gone to him? I've always suspected that The Doctor didn't go back for Sara Jane because he could at any time and he got distracted, not that he didn't want to.

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It's sad and frightening to think this might be a man who sees himself as being in the twilight of his life - the last ember of Gallifrey, burning down.

Good point about companion death. For the Doctor, losing Rose and her (and his, in a way) family to the other universe must be parallel to losing his own family and his people to the "other universe" of death; it's just got that bittersweet addition that she's still alive and she's fine, like knowing for a fact someone's in heaven.

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Ok, nvm- this is me, asking a question. Feel free to ignore or jump it to another thread or sumthin. Anyway: Was there anything you ever really, really wanted to do with the Doctor in a book as an author that you haven't got to do yet?

Just curious. And yes, I already know what the answer would quite possibly be if I were to end the question after "the Doctor". ;)

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A sex scene. Seriously. Or as close as I can get to one. Or a big romance without actual sex. He should fall in love with an intelligent microbe or something. I also came up with a proposal in which he temporarily became female, but it was pretty lame.

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Neat.

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