dreamer_easy: (Chevalier de Saint-Georges)
[personal profile] dreamer_easy
Rats! I'm still intrigued by how historically accurate it is for there to be Black men and women at Versailles in The Girl in the Fireplace, and for a moment I thought I'd come up with a super explanation for the chap visible in the panic at the ball - that he might be Le Chevalier de Saint-Georges, composer, fencer, and generally pretty amazing guy. Alas! He was born in 1745, and would only have been 13 years old when the clockwork robots arrived. But this does suggest that what we're seeing is not cheerful racial integration, which would be anachronistic, but the presence of a few remarkable individuals. (My other theories: the characters are visiting aristocrats; they are not aristocrats, but servants.)

(I haven't watched the story for a while. The Doctor is so smitten when he sees the grownup Reinette that he talks as though someone's hit him in the head with a shovel.)

ETA: I wonder if Reinette's friend Charlotte was inspired by Charles-André van Loo's Orientalist portrait of Madame de Pompadour?

Date: 2007-04-20 09:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vindaloo-vixen.livejournal.com
I, too, wondered that. I didn't know if it was colour-blind (intentionally or not) casting, which has been known to happen, especially in shows for kids or family; or another example of a historical time and place not being as segregated as we expect, or at least not in the way we'd expect.

It's almost unlinked, but the topic did remind me of something I thought while listening to a Family Guy commentary. There, they reveal that Alex Borstein is voicing a black character on the show, and they wonder if it's the first time a Jewish actor has played an African-American woman. I thought, Not really, Whoopi Goldberg does it all the time.

Date: 2007-04-20 09:15 am (UTC)

Date: 2007-04-20 10:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kateorman.livejournal.com
I knew from reading up on Casanova that there were Black people integrated into European society in the eighteenth century, which intrigued me. I think most of us have got an impression of an all-pallid Europe up until, say, the mid-twentieth century; discovering that (for example) Casanova really did have a Black manservant was an eye-opener. It's possible the presence of Blacks at Versailles is overstated in the episode, but as far as I've been able to find out, it's not an anachronism.

Date: 2007-04-20 11:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alawston.livejournal.com
Maybe Reinette's friend was really Kadiatu...

I should really know more about this, it's supposed to be my area of expertise.

Um.

Lettres Persanes, Montesquieu, that was 18th Century. Paris viewed through the prism of visiting Persian aristocracy. I don't remember much comment on the Persians' skin tone, although obviously that wasn't Montesquieu's angle anyway.

Date: 2007-04-20 10:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kateorman.livejournal.com
*jots down call number*

Date: 2007-04-21 08:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alawston.livejournal.com
I don't know how good your French is but this translation seems reasonably sound.

I know I wrote a final year essay on this text, but a quick search suggests it was actually written in the exam, rather than as coursework. I've got a ton of notes kicking around somewhere though.

Date: 2007-04-21 11:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kateorman.livejournal.com
Terrific site! I did some very simple searches, but only managed to come up with endless problems with the eunuchs. :-)

Date: 2007-04-20 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gdwessel.livejournal.com
Without looking at all, the French WERE in Africa by then, weren't they?

Date: 2007-04-20 01:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kateorman.livejournal.com
They were certainly using slaves in their colonies.

Date: 2007-04-20 01:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gdwessel.livejournal.com
'swhat I figured.

Date: 2007-04-20 01:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] albion1919.livejournal.com
(I haven't watched the story for a while. The Doctor is so smitten when he sees the grownup Reinette that he talks as though someone's hit him in the head with a shovel.)

That bit is so sweet! All those 'Erm,erm, erm' Lol ( I could see Five doing that).His eyes wander as well...

Date: 2007-04-20 01:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kateorman.livejournal.com
Yes, they do. :-) "How you've grown!"

Date: 2007-04-20 02:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hoosier-red.livejournal.com
Yeah, I wondered about that, and about the black character in MARIE ANTOINETTE who teaches MA how to play the harpsichord. Cool to think it was historically accurate.

As for the Doc falling all over Reinette, it's amusing to note that she was played by David's then-girlfriend Sophia Myles. I do love me some meta.

Date: 2007-04-20 03:57 pm (UTC)
ext_7448: (david tennant)
From: [identity profile] ahab99.livejournal.com
Well, that's when they first met, right? They weren't actually together when the episode was written and she was cast.

Date: 2007-04-21 05:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stephanielake.livejournal.com
The whole business is mentioned at http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PoliticallyCorrectHistory - also talks about things like the 1994 Little Women movie

Date: 2007-04-21 06:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pbristow.livejournal.com
As [livejournal.com profile] ahab99 notes: Make that "about-to-become-girlfriend". =:o}
(Which makes it even more meta, kinda sorta. =:o> )

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