The Lost Boys

[dreamer_easy]

Re-watching the movie that blew all our minds back in 1987. I'd forgotten what a strange and beautiful film it is, not to mention how funny it is. Buffy owes it an awful lot, I think - was this the first vampire flick in which they burst into flames in sunlight? Is Spike's look based on David's?

Weird Science, OTOH, is saved from being total crap by snappy editing and a genuinely funny cast. It's a nice twist that the boys try to make themselves a girl and end up with a woman.

Appropriate images to follow.

ETA: The grandad from Lost Boys was Dumont in Tron. If I ever knew that, I'd forgotten!

ETA: I love how the flying is handled in the film. I guess Buffy also borrowed the idea of the vampires "vamping out". But does the "they have to be invited in" thing predate Lost Boys?

Comments

[dameruth.livejournal.com]

Y'know what's really freaky? I toggled to my friends page and saw this post just as "People Are Strange" kicked in on my computer playlist.

Dude. Never say the Universe doesn't have a sense of humor.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

do do doo do, do do doo do

It's such an awesome soundtrack.

[dameruth.livejournal.com]

And a pretty good movie -- I'm still fond of it . . .

[ravenevermore.livejournal.com]

But does the "they have to be invited in" thing predate Lost Boys?

Salems Lot, I believe has this neat little getout clause. As does Bram Stokers Dracula. I could, of course, be blowing it out the proverbial.

[reynardo.livejournal.com]

It's a very old fairy tale rule. Some of the stories in "A Book of Witches" by Ruth Manning Sanders, which was a collection of old fairy tales, and the same rule - no crossing runing water, allowed into a house only if invited...

[ravenevermore.livejournal.com]

Ah good, so I'm not blowing it out the proverbial. :D

[qthewetsprocket.livejournal.com]

does the "they have to be invited in" thing predate Lost Boys?

i always thought that came from old european folklore. a half-assed google search confirms that wiki agrees with me on this point, for whatever that's worth...(especially since there's no citation given).

and yes, it is one of the awesomest soundtracks ever produced - lost boys absolutely defined the classic eighties 'soundtrack movie' genre for me. i used to play 'to the shock of miss louise' as the fadeout music to end my shift when i was a dj in college...

*has to play that song again now so it won't be stuck in my head all night*

[emma-in-oz.livejournal.com]

It's in the book of Dracula. It's one of the scariest parts - they think they are safe because they haven't invited him in but he has a minion on the inside who has.

[alawston.livejournal.com]

The zoophagus?

[pedanther]

I'm amused that you were able to remember the word "zoophagus", but didn't remember his actual name... :)

[alawston.livejournal.com]

Bizarrely, the bit I remember most clearly of all was Harker's diary entry about paprika, right at the start.

[emma-in-oz.livejournal.com]

The one played by Peter Lorre.

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

Renfield, yes.

[alawston.livejournal.com]

I wasn't allowed to watch it back in 1987, but it blew my mind when I saw it in 2001... Unfortunately by then, I'd seen or read most of the stuff that it had influenced (Goth Opera, hellooo), so it was a bit diluted for me.

Three things

[edorm.livejournal.com]

1) I still love this film
2) I still have the banner poster of the Lost Boys cast that we picked up from a video store in Melbourne. Was just this week considering finally turfing it out.
3) One wonders what happened to the incredibly muscular saxophone player dude who sings "I still believe" during the carnival ...

Re: Three things

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

3) omfg!

Re: Three things

[edorm.livejournal.com]

Well bugger me. And here's me thinking he must have had his one shot at fame and disappeared. Good on him.

[irritant01.livejournal.com]

It is an incredibly fun film, full of time-honoured quotes...

I wonder if anyone has counted how many times anyone in the film says the name "Michael"? It's shouted repeatedly throughout the film as I recall...

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

It must also hold some sort of record for comedy screaming.

[vindaloo-vixen.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the film of Weird Science, but I actually quite liked the TV series.

I dimly remember one (modern) version of the 'invited' rule which had a vampire able to enter a home uninvited but couldn't attack anyone or anything without the invitation (so I guess they'd be able to scope the place out or plot and plan but not actually take a nip or beat people up or anything). That'd be an interesting variation...or the product of a faulty memory! :)

But, er, on-topic, I think the invite-rule has been around for some time.

[caelidh.livejournal.com]

This was a GREAT movie. Great Soundtrack...

I was just mad that the vampires died in the end...I think I wrote private fan fiction fantasy stories about themm... oh.. uh never mind ;>P

The comeback lines and dialogue were great too. Ok.. some was campy.. but it was fun!!

[wyldemusick.livejournal.com]

Christopher Lee's Dracula had a tendency to burst into flame in sunlight, but I do believe that idea well predated even him -- as I recall that's essentially how the vampire in Nosferatu was waxed in 1922...he's convinced to stick around long enough that the sun comes up and flash-fries him. I'm trying to remember what happens in Herzog's Nosferatu -- I vaguely recall him turning into a shadow on the wall when the sun rises.

[hacked2death.livejournal.com]

I first watched this film when it came out on DVD. Mainly watched sci fi films as a kid, so the ending I knew nothing about. Funniest ending EVER.

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

I always wanted a sequel where we found out the backstory to Grampa.

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

The invitation trope is folkloric, but TLB's twist on it remains unique AFAIK -- i.e. that they can come in whenever they want, but the invitation "renders you powerless." I still think it was a cheat to take it as far as Max passing all the tests at dinner, since nobody else has EVER interpreted it that way, so it amounted to a big "ha-ha" on the audience at the end when there was no possible way to think his being a vampire was still on the table.

Someone beat me to the cinematic venerableness of bursting into flames. Pretty sure it is cinematic in origin. I don't recall it featuring in any pre-cinema fiction (the literary Dracula could actually move about during the day, albeit weakened), and certainly not in folklore.

The BtVS "vamp out" look definitely harks back to these guys! And was much more effective there, with the whole demon thing, than when it was used in the Rick Springfield Nick Knight pilot, where it just looked silly. But I think we have Hammer to thank for the "vamping out" trope itself -- it's just usually limited to eyes and fangs, rather than the whole face changing. I don't recall the latter prior to TLB, unless you count transitional shapechanging forms like in Fright Night.

I'm pretty sure both Spike and David owe their style sense to Billy Idol. :-)

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

It's a pretty common "old magic" or folkloric tradition that the evil spirits cannot cross thresholds of a home without permission -- or at least that they cannot harm the occupants. Max clearly (to the wary viewer) cannot enter without Michael's permission, and once he gives it, the vampire is free to use traditional vampire powers, including the hypnotic gaze and ability to cloud minds. Maybe it's the old school gamer in me, but without the traditional threshold protection of the home, a bit of the ol' vamp charm would go a long way.

(Aside: Any "cheat" regarding Max at dinner is easily forgiven by the holy water and garlic filled water pistols, and the OCD manicness of the Frog brothers' preparations. Nowadays I'd go armed with a supersoaker!)

Does Dracula, in the novel, actually DO anything during the day? I thought striking during the day was primarily to take advantage of his immobility while resting in his coffin...

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

and once he gives it, the vampire is free to use traditional vampire powers, including the hypnotic gaze and ability to cloud minds.

And y'know, I can buy that. He doesn't actually pass any of the tests, it's just an illusion! This makes me happy. (And a bit ashamed I didn't come up with it myself sometime in the last 20 years, as I'm usually the retcon queen.)

Aside: Any "cheat" regarding Max at dinner is easily forgiven

Oh, I'll forgive the movie as a whole just about anything. :-D I saw it nine times in the cinema as a poor high school graduate/college freshman, including two different sneak previews. (Denver was a big test market at the time. This made me very happy.) Obsessed is hardly the word. I just found the Max plot thread to be the weakest, to a degree they probably didn't want a seventeen-year-old observing.

Does Dracula, in the novel, actually DO anything during the day?

Having reread it just over a year ago... I don't think he does. Certainly nothing with a big impact on the plot. I think there may be an unexpected transit from point A to point B while they're haring around the city trying to neutralize all the boxes. Van Helsing, however, does state in one of the exposition dumps that he can move about in the day but can't use any of his powers. It's presented as more of a choice that he doesn't unless forced, because he can't counter their advantage of numbers.

[stephen-dedman.livejournal.com]

IIRC, Dracula appears in daylight twice in the novel, but he's just walking around. Stoker never says that sunlight harms him; he must sleep in his native soil during the day, but maybe not all day. And though the sun is setting when the vampire slayers catch up to him at the climax, it doesn't seem to be harming him, though it may rob him of his more dangerous abilities.

FWIW, many English vampire stories that pre-date Dracula have vampires walking around during the day.

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

When I say "cross the threshold without permission", I mean from the owner/resident. Similarly there are a number of traditions about beneficial household spirits that function similarly, but intended to ensure the brownie doesn't leave.

A lot of literary and cinematic mileage is built on subverting the old traditions about welcoming people into your home, greeting them properly, etc. -- the implication being that there are REASONS these things persist.

If, for example, you were to say "I welcome you as a guest in my home", you might rule (as author) that the very old hospitality traditions put you and the vampire in an effective state of truce -- you cannot harm him because he is your guest and he cannot harm you because you are his host, and thus with careful wording you could in fact have a pleasant dinner. Whereas if you say "my home is your home", you've effectively given him carte blanche.

(Again, my mindset also reflects 20 years of being a dungeon master and quite enjoying the Ravenloft setting...)

This is why it's useful to have a set of "rules" defined for your fantasy/horror critters when you write -- you need not reveal them fully to the reader/viewer, but without knowing them yourself, you're going to write inconsistent crap.

In FRIGHT NIGHT, for example, the mere presence of a cross does nothing; it's the faith that backs it that matters -- and thus we often see it employed since then. Notably for Doctor Who fans, in CURSE OF FENRIC, it's the psychic resonance of the faith itself that fends off the baddies, rather than the object that serves as a focus or symbol, and so the Doctor's faith in his friends and the Russian soldier's faith in the revolution work as well as (or indeed better than) the priest whose faith has begun to falter.

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

If, for example, you were to say "I welcome you as a guest in my home", you might rule (as author) that the very old hospitality traditions put you and the vampire in an effective state of truce -- you cannot harm him because he is your guest and he cannot harm you because you are his host, and thus with careful wording you could in fact have a pleasant dinner. Whereas if you say "my home is your home", you've effectively given him carte blanche.

You could build a terrific short story on this notion alone.

As for consistent rules, I'd call it more imperative than useful! Even if the audience not only doesn't necessarily know them all, but in many cases won't pay attention. If I had a penny for every conversation I've been in where someone tried to make a case that something applies to all vampires, and should therefore apply to a specific universe, when that universe has clearly delineated otherwise, I wouldn't need a day job.

They all drink blood (unless they're psivamps or something, but that's more of an SF trope). Beyond that, all bets are off and the responsibility is on the writer's shoulders!

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

According to one paper I read, it's possible that one of these guest-host tricks gets pulled in "The Descent of Ishtar". Two rescuers are sent to the underworld; the queen of the underworld makes an oath of hospitality to them, obliging her to give them what they ask for - Ishtar!

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

Max clearly (to the wary viewer) cannot enter without Michael's permission

Oh, and I remember assuming that intepretation the first time I saw it. But in light of the gang invading the house without invitation in the final melee, I had to revise to that a very canny tactic on Max's part, making sure that he wasn't just able to enter but had the full advantage of their being "powerless" (his word choice at the end.)

No, I don't still have the thing essentially memorized, why do you ask? ;-D

[benchilada.livejournal.com]

NEAR DARK also had vampires catching on fire in the sun and came out the same year.

If you haven't seen it, then I highly recommend that you do so. One of my faves.

[nyssa1968.livejournal.com]

I love both NEAR DARK and LOST BOYS. I remember thinking of NEAR DARK as the (slightly more adult) version of LOST BOYS :-) It was also must see for me given the cast of ALIENS/TERMINATOR that were in it. Gosh, memories.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Is Near Dark "We keep odd hours"?

[kitzen-kat.livejournal.com]

We're gonna have a good time toniiiiiiiiight!
My housemate introduced me to that movie around 1990, I think. Whenever it turned up on video. I think there may have been a little Kiefer Sutherland crush on her part.