Owen and That Spray

[dreamer_easy]

Posting this for my own reference more than anything else:

In fact, some of the fans who saw the UK airing of "Torchwood" were concerned about the scene early in the series where Owen uses a pheromone spray to attract a reluctant woman. They felt that the woman couldn't consent and so it was a form of sexual assault.

Chibnall states emphatically that they never meant to give that impression. "Obviously, people can read things the way they want, and that's the great thing about drama. That's not the intention of that scene. It's not directed in that way. It's not written that way. Also, why would we have that character as a hero? No. Maybe we didn't make it clear enough, I don't know, but it's absolutely not the intention."

"The spray only accentuates feelings that are already there," suggests Clarke.

"Yeah," agrees Chibnall. "And actually, if you look at the way the scene is directed - she's looking at him, she's eyeing him up. You know, it's meant to be comic. Really. It's a comic scene. And sometimes I think when you interpret comic scenes in a very serious way, it forces a misreading. It's a tricky one." Chibnall adds, "When you write something, you never know how it's going to be interpreted, you know, and you can't really correct that. You have to let the discussion go."

http://classic-horror.com/newsreel/torchwood_aliens_monsters_and_sex_coming_to_bbc_america

Comments

[hexacontium.livejournal.com]

I've never understood this scene differently and was really surprised by the meltdown in English forums it caused. Seriously, there were far worse things in Torchwood, imo *turns around and runs away*

[purrdence.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's just me, but this feels like 'can't you just take a JOKE, you humourless bitches?'

[purrdence.livejournal.com]

Then again, I also think Chibnall's the worst writer in the RTD stable.

[captainlucy.livejournal.com]

... she's looking at him, she's eyeing him up ... The spray only accentuates feelings that are already there

And does the same go for the pissed-off boyfriend about to beat Owen's head in?

Yes, it's meant to be a silly, funny scene and yes, lots of people have gone completely OTT complaining about it, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a scene that, to paraphrase a very overused macro, did it wrong. The fact that Chibnall has had to explain so much and in such detail what the scene was meant to be rather than have it explained clearly and unambiguously in the actual scene says a lot about what was wrong in Season 1 (thankfully greatly improved for Season 2).

[gregmce.livejournal.com]

"And does the same go for the pissed-off boyfriend about to beat Owen's head in?"

Yeah, I think that's the part of the scene where I think Chibnall's intention and what we actually got diverge dramatically.

[jblum.livejournal.com]

I don't think we can blame Chibnall for that scene, really -- it's the only episode which *does* have RTD's name on it! Chibi may know what RTD's intention was, but it's RTD who lost his joke in translation...

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Chibi!

[antikythera.livejournal.com]

Yup, combination of "humourless feminist bitches can't take a joke" and "I'm such a crap writer that I have to continuously explain what I wrote because nobody interpreted it right".

[doctor-toc.livejournal.com]

I actually like what Chibnall did for Torchwood season two, but he's clearly talking out of his arse here. The lassie may be chatting to Owen, even chatting him up, but Owen's use of the pheremone then removes her ability to change her mind or say no, which makes it no better than Rohypnol. The lie is given to Clarke's assertion that it only magnifies feelings that are already there when Owen uses it on the angry boyfriend who's about to punch his face in. Owen is a rapist, simple as that. Judging by the way he uses the spray, he's done it before too, which makes him a serial rapist. It's for this reason that I found his ending pretty appropriate. In my personal Torchwood canon, he's still inside the reactor, slowly dissolving.

Chibnall's not a bad writer, but his argument that "it's funny" makes it clear he hasn't given any thought to this at all. I can't wait for the "comedy" child-abuse scenes and the "slapstick" incest storylines.

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

See, I understand why people have an issue with the scene, but I think the criticisms are a bit out of hand. That is often the case when I see this sort of thing becoming the latest Reason To Argue in fandom -- it's not that the criticism is utterly without merit, but that it becomes the latest thing for people to get outraged about.

We simply don't know enough about how the thing works to assume it completely overrides normal judgement and preference. You can either assume a largely benign effect similar to alcohol (which is, of course, the usual social lubricant), or you can assume that the second, full-strength shot is really self defense to diffuse a dangerous situation. When used like Axe Body Spray, it simply functions as a baseline sexual attractant; when used full-force in the face, it overloads and confuses the receptors, making them more inclined to read all signals as sexual attraction.

But I think it's *supposed* to be a bit wrong and give insight into Owen's character at the same time. The entire sequence is about them misusing alien tech for their own personal purposes, against orders. Yes, it's played, perhaps inappropriately, for laughs, but i'm not sure it equates to date rape; we also don't know what effect it has on Owen himself. (When people get drunk together and have regrettable sex under a lapse in judgment, that's not date rape; when one person remains sober while the other's drunk, then you've got the necessary power imbalance.

Owen's *cheating* by using a powerful sexual attractant, certainly, but it's not clear that the ability to say no is removed -- just that the likelihood of saying yes is vastly improved.

In light of the fact that we LATER find that Jack's own pheremones are probably somewhat enhanced along similar lines (and that such is commonplace, or perhaps even genetically bred in by Jack's time), does that change how people feel about it?

[matthewwolff.livejournal.com]

We simply don't know enough about how the thing works to assume it completely overrides normal judgement and preference. You can either assume a largely benign effect similar to alcohol (which is, of course, the usual social lubricant), or you can assume that the second, full-strength shot is really self defense to diffuse a dangerous situation.

I couldn't agree more. We are given no evidence that this thing actually compromises a person's judgment or will like a date rape drug, so why does anyone insist on reading this into the scene? I read exactly what Chibnall describes of the scene on first viewing without even knowing about the controversy exploding in British fandom. And, yes, I also read the same into the pissed off boyfriend part of the scene. Kind of typical closet case macho behavior, I'd say, which is dropped once the spray lowers his inhibitions a little.

Yeah, Owen is meant to be seen a little dodgy.... I just don't see why fandom insists on judging the worst into not just the character, but also the creative team behind the show when the on screen evidence, at best, can be interpreted either way?

[tavella.livejournal.com]

Yes we are; when he uses it on the boyfriend, it tells you all you need to know about it compromising someone's judgment or will.

[purplecat]

I'm not sure "she wanted to really" is a good defense against "she said no" (and she had a boyfriend which contextualises why she said no even though she fancied Owen).

In fact, if anything, that defence makes it worse: It's alright to use drugs to get sex with people when they say no if they want to really.

The date rape reading was clearly unintentional but the scene itself and this defence of it do the show no favours.

[dameruth.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of people in the US who had the same negative reaction to that scene.

For my part, yeah, you could see they were playing it for laughs, sketching in Owen's less-than-sterling character, and showing how out-of-control Torchwood really was (as I've often said, Jack may be a great leader in action situations, but he's quite possibly the world's crappiest personnel manager). However, it was handled with a complete lack of . . . well, any kind of good sense at all, and it *did* end up falling into the category of "date rape" by my standards (or at least "really dodgy consent").

Did I run screaming down the street in outrage? No. Did I find it more icky than funny? Yeah. But I put it down to dumbass writing, shrugged, and moved on. I did that a *lot* in S1 of TW, actually, so it wasn't an isolated incident . . .

[starfirenz.livejournal.com]

*nods* - I know a number of people who feel incredibly uncomfortable about the scene, and I've heard the term 'alien rohypnol' used more than once.

Personally? I'm with the folks who say it's unethical but far from the worst we see... I also wonder if part of the incredible intensity of Owen's reaction to the Ghost machine in episode 3 of s1 is due to a need for absolution after some kind of sudden realisation that yeah, that what he did with the spray wasn't *really* that different in terms of intent to what Ed Morgan did.

[vindaloo-vixen.livejournal.com]

- which would kind of make Owen's thinking and later reaction a bit parallel to what went on with the writing and the viewing of the scene - at the time he thought he was just having a stupid bit of fun (as the writing probably intended), but later on he realised he was on much shakier ground (as many viewers' reactions perceived him).

Personally I thought, yes, it was supposed to be a silly scene that illustrated Owen's irresponsibility, but ended up with a lot more attached in the delivery and perception (and hence, maybe could have used a rethink at the time).