Fandom Kvetch 1

[dreamer_easy]

For a long time, I figured the biggest problem fandom has - and we have a few - was incestuous amplification. (We're rubbish at handling conflict, tending to panic and explode when faced with disagreement; but so is everyone online. In fandom's case, that feeds into our self-segregation into warring tribes.) However, I think there's a problem underlying that one. Everyone knows about fandom's comical self-importance, but fuelling that is what I now think is really our biggest problem: overentitlement. We know what's best. We demand to have our own way. If we don't get our own way, then the text and its creator(s) are wrong and bad, incompetent and immoral. Even people who didn't come to fandom as spoilt brats can be swept up in that self-centred, self-reinforcing attitude. And it spills over into fanacs - we've all seen fanbrats chuck a wobbly when they don't like the rules in some forum. (And I saw a grown man at Worldcon having a tantrum in the cafe because his coffee wasn't hot enough. THE SHAME.)

This used to be obvious to me when I was in boyfandom, in places like rec.arts.drwho, but it's only quite recently I've begun to recognise it here in girlfandom on LJ. (Yes, I'm aware these are huge gender generalisations, but they can be useful ways of looking at the different cultures within fandom.) The worst part of it is that it backfires: it makes fans miserable. The chances that some scribbler on the other side of the planet coming up with exactly what you want are pretty much nil, and if you can't cope with not getting what you want, you're going to hate whatever you do get. If only this was solely a self-inflicted injury, and not one that gets inflicted on everyone else as well.

Comments

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

Kate-
Bravo. You have hit the nail on the head.

My husband writes, for among other companies, Marvel Comics. Currently he is doing the adaptation of Stephen King's "The Dark Tower", X-factor, and She-Hulk however he is probably best know for his 12 year run on the Hulk. And I can't tell you the number of times that people have kvetched and whined about something he did or some thing that is only a rumor only to have them a couple of years later whine that the thing that they were complaining about a year ago is the thing that they are complaining isn't there any more. (Gosh I hope that made sense, I haven't had my coffee yet)

Fans think they know what they want and get upset when they can't get it.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Does he get the "But I pay your salary!" argument? :-)

Above I talk about "fandom" as though it's a monolith, which of course it isn't - which means that even if writers, producers etc caved in to fannish demands, they'd only be pleasing one segment of fandom anyway; the others would complain that they didn't get their way.

[outsdr.livejournal.com]

I really like your husband's work. I'm always fascinated by his take on characters and the direction he takes his stories.

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

I thought half the fun was going away with an oh so superior attitude and making up your own storyline when things weren't quite going the way you wanted. Besides where's the fun in being fair and balanced? Damn but I can't even use that phrase without tasting the irony.
I mean I agree that some fans have massive doses of multisylabicwordification, but really, is sci fi fandom the only bastion of bad behaviour? I think not. Nor are schisms over absolutely nothing a new thing, not for "fandom" of any kind and certianly not for religion. Still, there are two sides of this fence -- the empowered and unempowered. Perhaps the real hurt comes from the stupidity of not knowing what side of the fence you're on.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

This sort of nonsense goes on everywhere online, and indeed, everywhere offline. I think the difference between fandom and other arenas is the difficult relationship between the producer and the consumer. The text is so important to us, and yet we have no real control over it. What we do have is that creative response - if we don't like what was broadcast / published / whatever, we can and do just make up our own versions. (I think the insistence that our own creative efforts are worthless unless they're validated by the text is another manifestation of entitlement.)

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

Very cute. Stop before you start making any more sense!

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

I have a dear friend, who I like a great deal, who filled (and occasionally still fills) her flist with wails about J.k. Rowlings contempt for and poor understanding of her characters, how mean those other shippers are, how no one understands the character interaction in Xena right, and so forth. She gets really upset, and so angry. I just can't get her to understand how investing in other peoples characters like that so certain to lead to anger and misery.

I mean, sure, I get annoyed at sub-par TV (like certain recent season finales), just like I'd get annoyed if I went to a restaurant that I enjoyed last week, and the meal I was looking forward to turned out to not anywhere near as enjoyable as I was expecting, or just plain not terribly good. And that disappointment can be mitigated be whinging about it to my mates, and so forth, who will agree with me and tell me how clever I am. Its all part of the process by which we manage to enjoy things (like) whose quality is not consistent.

But there seems to be some line of crazy that fandom steps over, where they complain not about the quality of what is delivered, but the direction, essentially complaining that they aren't in charge. A bit like turning up to a restaurant, and being upset that the meal, while delicious, wasn't what they were planning to make at home.

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

"what I now think is really our biggest problem: overentitlement."

[WINCE]

I don't think I can begin to discuss this topic sensibly until I've persuaded you to cease torturing poor innocent bits of the English language. =:o\

The word "overentitlement" would mean "We're more entitled than we should be". But "entitled" means literally "holding the title to", as in property ownership. A person is entitled to something if they do, actually, in fact, own it. You are either *are* entitled to something, or you aren't.

The problem you're trying to describe in fandom is a *false sense* of entitlement. We *think* we're entitled to have a say in how a TV show is run: We aren't. Or, we think we're entitled to a bigger say in things than any of the zillions of people who also watch the show, but who aren't fans. Again, we aren't.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

It's a perfectly cromulent word!

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

[SNAPS FINGERS] That's it! We're over-embiggened. =:o>

My work here is done. [SALUTES, TWIRLS, EXITS AND TRIPS OVER THE CAT]

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

I think you'll find you've just fallen into a classic blunder - along with never start a land war in asia there's the never set up a straw man and wonder why he's not breathing blunder. '"overentitlement" would mean "We're more entitled than we should be".' Within the context of the argument, that's not what was meant and language is nothing if not contextual. This would be borne out by you seeming to know exactly what was going on.
Possible other definitions of "Overentitlement"
'Has too many titles'
'Feels they own something that they do not.'
'Stealing inheritance from siblings'
'Feels a sense of importance they do not have...'
Really the list is endless...

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

The English language is my safe, sane, and consensual submissive partner bitch.

(But if you gimme a word-one synonym, I'll switch.)

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

But what I'm seeing in many places where this issue is being discussed online is a gradual, unnecessary, and potentially confusing drift in the meaning of "entitlement". People start out using the phrase "sense of entitlement"; they discuss "entitlement issues"; When the subject crops up for the umpteenth time they abbreviate whole chunks of discussion to just responding "entitlement"... And then someone comes along who's not familiar with the background, asks for clarification, and ends up using "entitlement" for the name of the problem, wheras it started out as the name of thing people were having a problem *about*. Now, imagine that person then getting into conversation with someone else who hasn't been through the whole process: Confusion reigns. They're talking at cross puposes because one is using the word in it's original sense and the other in the adpated sense.

OK, language grows and word-usage changes, I get that; But sometimes it changes in a way that benefits everybody, and sometimes it changes in a localised, cliquey way that creates confusion and drama when the clique bumps into some other clique (perhaps even the biggest, scariest clique of all: "everybody else"! =:o} ).

So I like to do my bit to try to prevent the latter problem. It's habit I learned from watching my fellow evangelical christians trying to talk intelligibly to normal people the unenlightened. =:o}

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

While I would baulk at being considered normal :) I have to admit I was unaware of a wider discussion of "entitlement" living somewhat on the outskirts of fandom and failing to have joined any cliques whatsoever. Anyway being a bit slow, I'm always pleased when someone clarifies their position and shows... well insight, sense and humour.

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

[TIPS HAT] You're welcome! =:o}

[EXISTS SINGING A BOUNCY LITTLE STEVE TAYLOR SONG:]
"Their language it was new to me,
but 'Christianese' got through to me
and now I speak it fluently -
I want to be a clone!"

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

[IS TEMPTED TO CORRECT "EXISTS" to "EXITS"]

[DECIDES TO LEAVE IT THAT WAY] =:o}

[EDIT: ... BUT THEN HAS TO CORRECT *SINGING* ANYWAY. D'OH!]

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

You couldn't hope to meet a nicer bloke online. :-)

[outsdr.livejournal.com]

fanbrats

I like that term.


I hope it's never used to describe me.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm too bloody old to be a fanbrat now. A more appropriate term would be BITCH QUEEN. >:-)

[outsdr.livejournal.com]

Oooo....


Technically, I could use that one for myself as well. ;)

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

We are very amused. And PLEASE please keep toruturing poor innocent bits of the english language for posterities sake; elsewise we'd all still be grunting in the trees. Besides I think when things get down to the nitty gritty Old Mother Tongue is not nearly as innocent as she seems. You break out the pincers and hot irons, I'll break out the popcorn.

[the-cockfighter.livejournal.com]

I think there are several factors going on in fandom.

One - is that its social-political structure it is one which is egalitarian, people from various communities of different shapes, gender, sexuality etc are brought together based upon one common interest.

Two - how fandom interacts with the medium, primarily it deals with the show like a documentary - a collection of facts (but only that which is stated or seen) put into some theoretical framework.

Three - that intelligence is a valued trait, and more significantly that it is a major if not the main definition of one's self identity.

Four - the error that a collection of trivial facts is intelligence.

Five - being human one grabs power in a social-political structure where there are no rules, hierarchical structure or authority.

Six - a whole lot of underdeveloped inter-personal skills; 6a - namely fandom talk at each other, not with each other; 6b - that in fandom, one doesn't interact with a person, but a collection of facts and theories.

Thus it becomes a battle of authorship. The best fan, the one who excells at being the best Doctor Who fan is one can be has the most knowledge and power and therefore is the one who can wield their authorship over the show and everyone else.

So any fan who becomes an NA author or Producer/Writer of the new Doctor Who series is seen as a threat to that ambition.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

(a) That is an insightful analysis.
(b) ROFL YOUR ICON

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

Wait, is this a multiple choice test? 'Cos I wanna pick "(c) All of the above".

OK, I'm having far too much fun around post. [GOES TO MAKE A SOOTHING CUP OF TEA AND GET A GRIP]

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

[NODS SORROWFULLY] 'Tis very true. I know, because... I *was* that cricket bag! [BREAKS DOWN SOBBING]