Grumpy old trout, part one; or, Invisibility

[dreamer_easy]

In the past week we've seen the new Trek and the Wolverine flick and I've enjoyed them both: well-made, well-acted movies with plenty of pace and laughs. And yet I find myself oddly unmoved by either of them. Is it the brain chemicals? I've been having depression symptoms - terminal insomnia (fantastic name for waking up at 4 am) and teariness - so my shrink and I are inching up my dose. Is it a jaded palate? Is it the recycling of increasingly threadbare ideas - mad widower with superweapon bent on revenge, time travel paradox, mutant oppression, etc? Or is it that the only roles for women in both films are Mom and Girlfriend?

I enjoy all the What It Is To Be A Man stuff the boys get to do - struggle with their Feelings, their Daddy Issues, their Propensity for Violence, their wardrobes, etc. But despite the grafting of Skillz and Tude onto Uhura, her role is to amusingly prefer Spock to Kirk, provide emotional support to the former, and take her clothes off in front of the latter. The job of Spock and Kirk's mums, and wossname's missus, Mrs Romulan, whatever, is to die tragically. Even if changing the sex of, say, Chekov or Sulu would've caused a fannish uproar which might've split the Earth's crust, there's no reason the mad widower couldn't have been a mad widow, or that Sarek could've fallen off a cliff instead of Amanda.

Similarly, the long history of epically powerful women in the X-Men is forgotten in the Wolverine flick, which is overwhelmingly male. The few women are almost entirely passive victims: his cipher mother, his they-made-me-do-it girlfriend with her wimpy power and pointless self-sacrifice. Even the mean Queen herself, Emma Frost, is reduced to a human shield.

These are very outdated Hollywood ideas: chicks are there as love interests, to look pretty and motivate their menfolk, generally by dropping dead. It's distancing, alienating, like you're watching a movie which has nothing do with you. There's always the danger of SPFX-and-action-packed movies to turn into video games someone else is playing: marginalising the female characters only leads in that my-eyes-glaze-over direction.

Comments

[th-esaurus.livejournal.com]

I more and more come away from films with disatisfaction at the portrayal of women in them, but this is always followed by a guilty thought - do men ever feel stereotyped or set into 'roles' in films, as some women do? I feel like I can't fully say. I feel guilty for thinking films sometimes treat women badly (or perhaps just without the respect or depth they deserve) because I often don't pick up on poor treatment of people that I personally identify less with. I'm explaining myself badly, agh.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

IMHO both films contain plenty of male stereotyping, but the men have a greater range of roles - testosterone-fuelled hero, geek, silver-haired leader, comic relief - and, more importantly, they are the subjects of the story, rather than plot coupons to help the story along.

It's worth being aware of stereotyping and marginalisation which don't directly affect us, but we're experts on the stuff that does. Plus there's a certain amount of similarity: these films are about men rather than women, but also White rather than non-White, and teh gay doesn't even get a look in (in fact, they've cleverly squelched any hint of K/S by giving sexless ol' Spock a girlfriend). Each way you look at it, one group gets to be in the centre and another is pushed to the edges.

[zanda-myrande.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen it yet, but I've read in someone else's review that the entire planet of Vulcan gets blown up or imploded or something. So I'm waiting for someone else to notice that the writers erased an entire non-human (and therefore by definition non-white) culture from the Trekverse, and set up the "ZOMG RACISM!" cry. (It didn't happen with the Time Lords, of course, but then they were so obviously British.)

[jblum.livejournal.com]

Ah, but Vulcans are the Planet of Nerds, and therefore by definition as white as you can get...

[zanda-myrande.livejournal.com]

Check out the first comment (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/011298.html).

*punches air* Can I call it or can I call it?

Wait till someone notices they did it to Krypton as well...

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

You know, if it wasn't for the usual overblown fan language - characters are always "raped" or "murdered", never "changed" - she'd have quite an good point there: making Spock more human makes him less of an outsider, and if you've been identifying with him because you are an outsider, that's going to suck. Mind you, that the movie's hero is the cool nerd who gets the girl is just another reminder that the war on geeks is over and the geeks won.

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

The entire K/S thing was invented by fandom. It simply isn't there -- no hint, at all, ever, of anything beyond a deep friendship or brotherhood.

And Spock had several *explicit* "girlfriends" in the original series (and I always thought Uhura had a crush on him from the original series). Certainly she is one of the rare people he explicitly compliments directly in the original series.

The Spock/Uhura thing in the movie seems honestly motivated; a bit of a "hot for teacher" thing perhaps, but one where he responds to her skills as much as to her looks and personality. That foundation -- deep respect -- was there in the original.

So yeah, it's always about Kirk and Spock, and then Bones, and then the others. But they *matter*, they contribute significantly. For this story, I agree they aren't as important as Kirk or Spock -- but that's the source material. If you're going to do a story where Kirk is the captain, that's where the focus is going to be. Seems foolish to complain about it.

Looking at Uhura as a character -- since she is the main female character in this cast -- examine HER role. Yes, her function is to attract Kirk but turn out to be involved with Spock. But how is that played? Kirk *never* has a chance with her and she is always in full control of that dynamic. Her professional skills are supported from the moment she's introduced -- she is clearly not just a pretty face, and we find out that she's earned top marks. She's got a good ear and good instincts, which provides key info at a crucial moment. And when Spock takes pains to avoid playing favorites, she calls him on it because she has earned that berth on her own merits (and Spock knows it too -- even though the scene is played for a laugh and is also another "destiny calling" moment). She comforts Spock, or tries to, when he needs it -- and then she goes back to doing her job VERY well.

Oh, and she is a woman of color in an interracial, interspecies relationship -- though that is never pointed to because it's the future and we should be better than that. It is simply never an issue -- there's no need, since we've already seen Spock dealing with his own racial issues. And it was never really an issue in the older series either.

Who else do we see? Sulu. The character of course has never been gay, but the original actor was. Sulu isn't a focal character, but he gets plenty to do and again -- it's stuff that matters. We see a hint of ambition and humor, a reminder of his inexperience, all in that first scene where he moves quickly past a rather elementary blunder. It's actually a pretty telling scene. Later, Sulu's taste for adventure puts him and Kirk on the sky dive, so we see his swashbuckling side as well. He uses his brains to get out of the jam and his sword to fight the baddies, and then emerges with a mutual life-debt with Kirk. Then he shows off mad piloting skills to help save the day AGAIN. So while we don't learn much about Sulu as a man, we do learn more than we think, despite limited screen time.

So our two examples among the bridge crew are actually portrayed pretty well -- and aside from the main lead female being an object of attraction, she is not *treated* as an object by any of the folks involved. Kirk hits on her, but he hits on *everyone*, and I'd argue he doesn't patronize her in the slightest; more the other way round!

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I'd like to see a sequel with this cast, preferably one in which Uhura gets a chunk of plot of her own which has nothing to do with Spock or Kirk's hearts or trousers, just as Sulu and Scotty did in this one. (What the hell's it called? I don't even know. Star Trek n factorial or something.)

Tell you another thing I thought was a bit dodgy - Uhura's slutty roommate. Tee hee, maybe those Orion comfort women forced prostitutes slave girls enjoy their work after all!

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

I thought that was dodgy, too! I liked, though, fwiw, that she had the same attitude towards sex and men that Kirk has towards sex and women.

[daibhid-c.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting point. Because I didn't think of her as "slutty"; I just thought "Hee, there's a woman who seems to have much the same attitude to relationships as Kirk, and he can't handle it!"

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

::nods fervently:: That was kind of adorable, huh! I was a bit icked at first because I thought, oh no, he's got a woman in love with him and all he's after is sex, I don't like that for her sake or for the sake of women in the story generally.

When I realised she seems to do this all the time and heartily enjoys sex and Kirk couldn't cope, I just laughed and laughed and laughed.

[matthewwolff.livejournal.com]

Uhura's slutty roommate. Tee hee, maybe those Orion comfort women forced prostitutes slave girls enjoy their work after all!

Agreed.

[jblum.livejournal.com]

Heh. ISTR reading that Trek performed a massive retcon of the Orions into a female-dominated society, towards the end of Enterprise...

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

The entire K/S thing was invented by fandom. It simply isn't there -- no hint, at all, ever, of anything beyond a deep friendship or brotherhood.

Oh, bless your heart. This is true, of course, but it's true for ALL non-canon relationships. There's a helluva lot of them in fandom! People will put anyone with anyone, including characters that've never met.

Some people WANT Kirk & Spock to be together, and the respect/brotherhood/friendship etc. are the reasons why they like them together romantically/sexually as well as platonically.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I wonder if there's such a thing as anti-slash. "Ianto and Jack are just good friends! You're degrading their friendship!" :D

Hmmm, I wonder if the "bromance" thing is a way of defusing the homoeroticism implicit in homosocial relationships.

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

Ha! <3! HOW DARE YOU MAKE THAT ALL ABOUT SEX. ::flounces away, weeping::

Ooh, that's interesting. It's OK to be practically gay, huh? But as long as it's made very very clear that the two guys in question are NOT sexually interested in each other and NEVER could be.

[matthewwolff.livejournal.com]

The point being that perhaps there is no room for a homosexual relationship among the regulars in a production taken out of the source material, no matter how much fans want it...

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

Oh, sure, and I never expected (or particularly wanted) to see anything explicit in it. I seriously doubt we'd ever get canon Kirk/Spock or canon Sulu/Chekov etc. I don't think any vaguely realistic fan has ever expected to see canon homosexual relationships between the regulars, though I could be completely wrong there of course.

But the non-slash fans like seeing their relationship develop because it's fun, and the slash fans like seeing it develop because it's fun and they can let their imaginations wander about what OTHER things might develop off screen.

(For the record; I quite like Kirk/Spock, but I like lots of different relationships between the Trek characters, and I'm not terribly fussed. I've written a lot of slash but never any Trek slash.)

[angriest.livejournal.com]

I am very interested in your opinion about whether Uhura has been shifted from acting as an intergalactic receptionist to acting as a "beard" for Kirk and Spock's slashy tendencies.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

The people who made this movie are obviously mad keen fans - Kirk's apple, ffs! I cheered! - so there's no way they weren't aware of the potential for slashtasticness. Moving Uhura from the Gang Of Four sidelines to the love interest role accomplishes quite a bit - gives them a Twofer front and centre; saves them having to squeeze in one more cast member; gives Spock a chance to show that he is, in fact, an emotional being; allows him to pwn Kirk, to the delight of all geekbois in the audience; and nails Spock down, ie, dispels the ambiguity of his sexlessness by giving him a sexuality.

[angriest.livejournal.com]

For some reason it weakened Spock for me. Not saying I want him to be a eunuch, but there was always something very dependable about the way Spock carried himself in "the old days" that seemed lost when he was snogging Uhura.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Mind you, his new powers of sarcasm are pretty awesome. Set phasers to snark!

[browneyedgirl65.livejournal.com]

Hm I don't know whether it weakens him or not -- only time (har har har) will tell. I thought it was particularly relevant, though, that he never seemed to respond to her at all until after Vulcan was destroyed. It's part of being in that emotional state. (I wonder if it's sort of an alternate timeline parallel to how the character of Spock was portrayed in the original Menagerie flashbacks,)

I'll tell you, though, the movie struck me as one huge rendition/version of Killing Time. Which makes me laugh and laugh and laugh...

Back to the general erasure of women & POC, you bet. But the general trend has been swinging back toward Duditude movies for a while now. All the movies are awful in this respect right now (and we should be complaining, don't get me wrong). I expect the pendulum to swing back over the next decade provided our cultural atmosphere doesn't take another conservative nosedive :-P

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

However, I agree totally about Wolverine. But I blame that more on it being a testosterone fest focused on one very manly main character; nearly every other character is there to get a cameo and nothing more. All other characters are there to relate to the main character -- but it would have been as true of a movie about Storm.

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

Ironically, one of my complaints about NextGen movies has been that they took what had always been a more equitable ensemble show and turned it into the Picard and Data show.

TOS was almost always focused on Kirk, with Spock and Bones externalizing elements of his personality.

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

(I'm spamming both you & Kate today, sorry!)

Completely agree re the focuses; I expected the Trek movie to be all about Kirk with the others having some focus, and it was. I actually thought they did a good job of giving everyone (I have issues with some of Uhura's stuff though) some good character moments even if they didn't get much screentime.

I agree re TNG, too. I was very disappointed with those that we got so little Riker, so little Worf, so little Troi, etc.

[browneyedgirl65.livejournal.com]

I wonder how much of that is through the way movies tend to be structured around a leading actor...

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

::nods:: Completely agree. Movies are rarely about an ensemble. Especially action movies (I know TNG doesn't entirely qualify as action, but it is sort of actionish). There's generally a lead actor and the others get lesser focus.

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

I completely agree about Uhura. I've been surprised not to see more worry about her in other posts about the movie.

I think that she herself behaved just fine given the circumstances, but I HATE that so many of her scenes revolved around her being something for Kirk or Spock. Yes, she was shown to be competent and snarky and self-confident, which I dig, and she was shown to care about people, which I also dig.

But many of her scenes were there to show that Kirk's a womaniser, and Spock has a softer side and needs mothering, and she used her relationship with Spock to get her the Enterprise, FFS! This is not a huge deal given the kinds of things she could've tried to pressure him into; she obviously had the competence to go to the Enterprise. But still, she used her personal relationship with him to get an assignment.

Kirk was defined by his sexuality to some degree, but it was never much of an issue. More just that he likes women and would hit on anything female. With the others, their sexuality wasn't in question. They all (even Scotty, who only appeared a LONG way into it) got fun character moments, showing humour and competence, that had absolutely nothing to do with their gender.

[cricketk.livejournal.com]

she used her relationship with Spock to get her the Enterprise, FFS!

Hi! Completely random person response here.

Spock initially refused to assign her to the Enterprise to "avoid the appearance of favouritism". Spock used their relationship to not assign her to the Enterprise; she protested based on her academic results and job competence. So I would tend to argue entirely the other way on this one.

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

Hello! :)

Oh, I saw it a bit differently. I know that's basically what was said, and most likely if they weren't involved he would've assigned her to the Enterprise. So yeah, NOT a huge deal. Not like she's incredibly incompetent and didn't deserve any kind of assignment whatsoever.

Yeah, if they weren't involved she probably would've gotten the Enterprise anyway. But she pressured him based on their relationship. I found that incredibly icky, and I found it icky that he caved, too. He's her teacher, and her superior (which is also icky in terms of them having a relationship).

If it'd been more explicit that it was purely to avoid the appearance of favouritism, and she pointed out the flaw in his logic that she would've gotten it without them being involved, and he agreed that his logic was flawed and she was right about that, then I would have less of a problem with it. But basically she told him what to do and he caved.

I don't have a HUGE problem with it; I have way more of a problem with Winona Ryder being cast as Zachary Quinto's mother when she doesn't look anywhere near old enough!!! But I still don't like it.

I can totally see how you see it that way, though. :) Which isn't that far from how I see it.

(I have a nasty feeling I'm failing at the internet. You disagreed with me VERY politely and respectfully and gave reasons, and I haven't responded with flames! And I don't hate you! What's wrong with me!!)

[cricketk.livejournal.com]

I was pretty sure Spock said it was to avoid the appearance of favourtism, because I spent a couple of seconds going 'huh?' and trying to figure out why there would BE an appearance of favouritism (and completely dismissing the possibility of a relationship. Fail.)

He caved way too quickly, though. I agree.

Potentially we are both failing at the internet. We disagreed and I'm not even in tears yet. :)

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

I vaguely remember him saying something like that. ::nodnodnod::

Yes! Which cracked me up but also made me go bzuh. I know his different portrayal of Spock/Vulcans has been a big seller for some people, and I liked LOTS of what he did, but that was one of the things that made me scratch my head at this Spock.

HA. Neither am I! <3!

[zanda-myrande.livejournal.com]

*hand raised at the back* "I am."

[megthelegend.livejournal.com]

Awwwww! I'm sorry!

/completely fails at the internet

[pedanther]

I have way more of a problem with Winona Ryder being cast as Zachary Quinto's mother when she doesn't look anywhere near old enough

What I've heard is that originally they were planning to have a scene with boy!Spock and his mother, so they cast an actress who would look the right age in that scene (because it's generally easier to convincingly age a young actor than to convincingly youth on older actor); and then that scene didn't make it into the final cut, leaving Spock's mother being played by a young actress for no immediately obvious reason.

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

I'm pleased I carefully didn't read this before I saw the movie (thanks for the cutaway)

You make some good points. The sexism thing probably is hard to avoid given the original Star Trek, which although ahead of its day, was still undeniably sexist. Trying to "modernise" it with only one female main(ish) c/ter as your scaffold is going to be difficult to say the least. Having said that, I still found the role of females disappointing, but it was ameliorated somewhat by Kirk's endless trying to womanise to the point of stupidity.
lots of fun no content. And maybe next -time they'll feel freer to insert kick-ass female. Girls need strong female c/ters, , it's sad when you can count the number of truly cool female characters you're aware of on one hand to the point where the doctor's daughter could have been the worse episode ever but the fact that it had a girl toe-to toe-ing with the dr. made it a must see again and again and again. There are so few, but I think perhaps we should start seeing some female skills as positive, Ahura did manage to show a feminine side as well as competence, and I liked that, not everything considered "feminine" is bad - like comforting loved ones, thinking about it though -- the easiest thing to do would have been a better balance of females obviously playing a command role. Rather than -um- none that I can remember against about 4-5 men.

Damn but I hate it when you're right.

Anyway, it's all good. A great kick-ass female character... maybe I can do that... Again.