For Elizabeth Moon - with respect.

[dreamer_easy]

I want to make this posting out of respect for Elizabeth Moon. Why respect? Because I've met her and was inspired by her; because she's published lots of original SF novels and I'm still trying to get there; because it's her country and not mine; because, although I haven't the heart to check Google, I'll bet right now she is being dragged through the mud all over the place - not her posting about Park51; her. Online fandom, and indeed the net in general, don't know how to attack opinions - only how to attack people. (ETA: That's an overstatement. It's just woefully typical!)

You'll know, from my postings on the subject here and elsewhere, that Ms Moon and I have very different views on Park51 and on Islam generally. What's more, as an Anglo-Australian, I'm very aware that I'm not affected by the issues of discrimination and assimilation that her posting raises.

Rather than address either of those issues, then, what I want to do is question some of the statements in Ms Moon's posting, statements I believe to be factually incorrect.

Ms Moon states:

"When an Islamic group decided to build a memorial center at/near the site of the 9/11 attack, they should have been able to predict that this would upset a lot of people."

Firstly, the posting refers repeatedly to a "memorial center", which I don't think accurately describes the project: it's a community centre, which will include a memorial to the victims of 9/11, but also a swimming pool and gym, classrooms, a restaurant, an auditorium (and of course the prayer room which opponents call a "mosque").

But more importantly, in my opinion, Ms Moon is wrong in her belief that the planners of Park51 were hoping to provoke controversy - or that at least, they should have expected it.

For one thing, in the prayer room at the Pentagon, built on the very site of the 9/11 attack, hundreds of American Muslims have prayed every day since 2002 without anyone objecting.

For another - and for me, this is the clincher - the announcement of Park51 did not create a controversy. It had official and popular approval and minimal media attention. There was no to-do until months later, when anti-Islamic pundits made it into an Issue - and politicans jumped on board.

In my opinion, they are responsible for the angry arguments which are dividing Americans right now - not the planners of Park51. If anyone is neglecting their duty as citizens, it's the media figures and politicians using the community centre for their own cynical ends - especially those spreading suspicion, hate, and lies.

As Mayor Michael Bloomberg stated:

"We may not always agree with every one of our neighbors. That's life. And it's part of living in such a diverse and dense city. But we also recognize that part of being a New Yorker is living with your neighbors in mutual respect and tolerance. It was exactly that spirit of openness and acceptance that was attacked on 9/11."

tl;dr With respect, Ms Moon is incorrect: the planners of Park51 did not intend to provoke controversy; nor should they have expected it. There was no controversy until right-wing pundits invented one.

Comments

[whochick.livejournal.com]

As you already know, I'm not a Muslim. But let me just say, that if I were, I'd most likely be one of the most emotionally conflicted people in my little monkey-sphere because there is so much misinformation, uninformed opinion-slinging and general idiocy surrounding Islam out there in the world.

I heartily agree with your point of view. With all due respect to Ms. Moon, she's got it a little twisted, to my way of thinking. It's far too easy to fall into the trap of viewing the Islamic world as one united people, when really, it's as divided and diverse as any other faith.

While people continue to view moderate, passionate and intelligent Muslims as the same 'type' of people as those who perpetrated 9/11, we're just asking for the world's next religious war. I really hope that common sense and logic win out.

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

It's far too easy to fall into the trap of viewing the Islamic world as one united people, when really, it's as divided and diverse as any other faith.

True dat: "... Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the chairman of the Cordoba House, is a Sufi. Al Qaeda is Sunni (actually, more accurately Wahabi) and consider Sufis apostates. Al Qaeda has less tolerance for Imam Rauf than Sarah Palin, as frightening as that is to consider."

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

"As you already know, I'm not a Muslim. But let me just say, that if I were, I'd most likely be one of the most emotionally conflicted people in my little monkey-sphere because there is so much misinformation, uninformed opinion-slinging and general idiocy surrounding Islam out there in the world."

When I was a teenager, I used to feel that way about Christianity (I was part of a small-town independant evangelical church, surround by sneering atheists and disinformation-spreading "faux christian" (as we saw it) Anglicans). Now I'm a grownup with my eyes open a little wider, I realise... boy, we hade it easy! (Also: in retrospect, we more than slightly deserved what we got. =:o\ )

[catsparx.livejournal.com]

Thank you for exercising such respect, Kate. Moon might be less well informed than she could be but she doesn't deserve the tsunami of boiling vitriol she's copping for posting an opinion that doesn't sit well with others.

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

In the seventies, Black feminist Audre Lorde wrote to Mary Daly criticising the absence of African goddesses from Daly's book Gyn/Ecology. When she received no response, it became an open letter, which is full of respect, gratitude, and good will. It's a model of how to disagree civilly - that is, treating the other person as a fellow citizen, someone of equal worth with whom you must find a way to get along. Now I am old and weary, I aspire to Lorde's grace.

[catsparx.livejournal.com]

I think a little of her grace could go a long way in our community

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

That and some freakin' Valiums lololol

[mondyboy.livejournal.com]

It's not just the opinion that I find offensive, it's how she clearly goes beyond the opinion and provides her subjective thoughts on what she thinks of Islam. I've read the post a few times, including her comments, and I can't seed how it couldn't be interpreted as racist and bigoted. And patronizing. And so yes in anger I have poured vitriol on her.

[catsparx.livejournal.com]

I've read it too. Pouring vitriol is your right, Mondy. But I don't have to like it.

[mondyboy.livejournal.com]

Fair comment.

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

Damn it! I was just about to leave another comment at your lj, clarifying that I wasn't responding to your posting in particular. Not quick enough!

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

I've got one word for you. Mid-terms.

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

Ayup.

[iblis-kukl.livejournal.com]

Sanity has a liberal bias.... (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Election-2010/Vox-News/2010/0917/Rally-to-Restore-Sanity-battles-March-to-Keep-Fear-Alive)

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

"Take it down a notch for America"! Oh, that is brilliant!

[bemused-leftist.livejournal.com]

Oh, very sensible! Here is a good New Yorker article making that same point.
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2010/09/20/100920taco_talk_wright

I have considerable material supporting Park51 at my LJ.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Thanks for that excellent link! (What a chilling comparison...)

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

It's frustrating, because the beginning of her post is hard to disagree with. Being engaged and giving back are both such obvious social goods that by the time she gets to the bits where she seems to assume that all Muslims are members of immigrant populations and that Park51's developers are Bad Citizens who should have known better, I just stare at the screen wondering what just happened. It's like somebody flipped a rocker switch halfway down the page.

I just want to say, "Wait, no! Go back! All of that was good stuff (if a bit preachy) up until you veered out into the land of bad information!"

[hnpcc]

I had the same feeling - I read both this post and the Obsidian Wings one before I clicked on the link, and initially was going "Am I missing something?"

Then I got to the later part and seriously, WTF? Also, argument not hanging together, even marginally. Also, WTF??? I had to re-read the start to make sure I wasn't imagining it.

[judiang.livejournal.com]

I've spent all day thinking about this post, wondering why I felt both in agreement, but yet disturbed.

You listed facts which are all true, but in this current climate of unreason, facts are not allowed to get in the way of the real problem: bigotry. The cognitive dissonance in Moon's post was caused by an astounding degree of ignorant white Christian privilege regarding assimilation and Islam. Her unreasoning were all talking points spewed by ultra right extremists used to promote Islamophobia and xenophobia. It was appalling.

I've watched you spend the last three years researching bigotry. Now comes indefensible subjective commentary from a writer you respect. Here was your opportunity to talk about bigotry. If Moon were to agree with every single one of these facts, it still would not address the bigotry which is what the uproar is about.

I imagine you felt uncomfortable deciding how to approach the debate. But in the interest of avoiding personal attacks and vitriol against her, you don't talk about the bigotry but manage to sidestep the issue.

Moon's comments are what real insidious bigotry looks like. It comes from people you know, people you respect, people you brush elbows with every day. Sure, it's easy to criticize strangers, even harshly so; it's more difficult to deal with those you respect. But you still must address it; you cannot deal with prejudice by not talking about prejudice. Fondness doesn't mitigate it in any way. Use the tools you've learned over the last three years to address her bigotry, or else, what has all your research been for?

I'm not surprised she was personally lambasted. As a PoC and a non-Christian, I believe bigotry is essentially integral to character. It colors everything a person thinks and does. I cannot feel dispassionate. If after extensive discussion, a person demonstrates she really don't care, then I must seriously reassess their character downwards.

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this challenging comment!

I've only read one response to Ms Moon (from mondyboy, who was outraged but focussed on her statements rather than her person). I won't seek out further responses, because the quality of online debate is so poor that I am unlikely to learn anything new or worthwhile from it without wading through a ton of slag looking for a gem.

IMHO, one of the reasons for that poor quality is a persistent focus on character instead of statements - a focus which quickly sours into cyberbullying. Online fandom is not rigorous about the truth, and it loves to define in and out groups. Again IMHO, this is one reason so little of the discussion is fruitful.

In the face of all this noise, what can I contribute that others already aren't? Two things, I hope. One, debunking - my cherished hobby! The "bad citizen" thing is the spine of Ms Moon's argument; remove it, and the whole thing comes tumbling down. Obviously, there are plenty more bones to pick (mondyboy addresses the assimilation business with more authority than I ever could!), but I figured I'd grab the biggest one and yank it out.

Two: a message which Ms Moon (and others who share her views) may be inclined to listen to. A huge hurdle to discussing racism is white peoples' defensiveness. Well, white people ought not to be so defensive; but we are, as are all people when they feel threatened. While anger is necessary and appropriate, a non-threatening message may have a better chance of getting people to change their minds. From personal experience I know that a single respectful message after a flood of abuse comes as a great relief; it gives you a chance to stop defending yourself and instead turn your energy to thinking about the problem.

I'm sorry to have made you think less of me - although alas, my goal is not to earn anyone's approval! I mean to continue with this whole non-violent communication thingy, and I cling desperately to the importance of facts in what you rightly call the "climate of unreason".

However - and this is the important part of this comment, never mind all that other stuff - I take your point that I haven't addressed the attitudes expressed in the posting. I think you're right that it's those views and assumptions which, in the face of wrong or missing facts, produce the counterfactual statements I'm keen to correct. So what I'd like to do (in the next day or so) is make a second posting taking a look at those attitudes - keeping the same respectful, evidence-based approach.

[judiang.livejournal.com]

Don't get me wrong: I don't think less of you. My intent was to prod you to take the bull by the horns, as it were. Some time ago, you commented you felt burned by Race Wank 2007. I'm not going to comment about that except to say I hope you didn't take away from it the idea that bigotry is a topic you should publicly avoid at all costs.

I'm looking forward to your post.

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

Consider me prodded. :D

I wasn't burned by racewank '07 - I was shattered by it. I'm still dealing with the psychological fallout. But it's had two very positive results. First, when someone told me that what I would do next was to run away crying about how mean the Black girls were, I created seeingred instead. I have a long way to go, but everything I have learned since then has benefitted me enormously. Second, it forced me to deal with the damage done to my soul by bullying in high school. In turn, dealing with that makes it possible for me to continue struggling with the issues, rather than hiding under the bed. :)

But enough of this airy persiflage! Your comments will of course be most welcome on whatever I end up scribbling. :)

[hnpcc]

I thought you mind find this article relevant: Catholics, Muslims and the Mosque Controversy.

Seriously there's a huge amount of deja vu happening here, at least for me.

The sentence:

Most worrisome, Catholics seemed insufficiently grateful for their ability to build churches and worship in a democracy, rights sometimes denied to Protestants and Jews in Catholic countries, notably Italy.

Sounded suspiciously like what Moon was saying in the last part of her post (and a lot like the "we shouldn't let mosques be built because Saudi Arabia doesn't allow churches!" arguments I've seen online elsewhere.) Weird.

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

"But if the Catholic experience in the United States holds any lesson it is that becoming American also means asserting one’s constitutional rights, fully and forcefully, even if that assertion is occasionally taken to be insulting."

My gods, yes! It means refusing to accept that "Muslim" and "American" are mutually exclusive terms.

[lydiabell.livejournal.com]

With due respect to you, I feel I should point out that this:

Online fandom, and indeed the net in general, don't know how to attack opinions - only how to attack people.

is unfair. Many people wrote intelligent comments on Moon's post respectfully disagreeing with her. Unfortunately, she deleted all of them. Before deleting them, her response was essentially "you're reading my post wrong."

If you want to keep the focus on people's words and actions, you shouldn't misrepresent them.

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

Quite right too! That remark of mine is a terrible overstatement. Of course there's respectful disagreement out there; it's just a bit lost in all the noise. I'm not going to go fishing for it in Google, but if you or others rec postings, I'll certainly go and read them. *tips hat*