Genesis 13

[dreamer_easy]

You'll find the text here. My notes to myself follow.

- Couple of mentions of Sodom and Gomorrah so far, though we're not up to the account of their destruction. That suggests their fate was well-known, even proverbial, so the text needs to explain this was before all that.

- It's so odd to constantly encounter modern place names, such as Hebron. It reminds you that this legendary-seeming world has a very real setting.

- A cheeky fellow on talk.bizarre claimed he had committed the sin of Gomorrahy, but IIRC wouldn't go into details.

- Mondy, something extremely interesting which you mentioned - the idea that this is *not* what it looks like, a history of the world. If you're still reading, I'd love to hear more about that!

Comments

Genesis 13

[(Anonymous)]

Hi Kate,

Of course I'm stil reading :-).

Okay the orthodox Jewish view is that all the events stated in the Tanach - including the 5 Books of Moses, the Prophets and the Writings are actual events that happened.

However, they did not necessarily happen in the order they are presented. That said, there's a default setting in the sense that the Bible is linear in nature unless is trying to teach us something.

But, orthodox Jews don't read the Torah as a historical text. According to Judaism, the Torah only tells us what we need to know. Anything superfulous is cut. So any historical event that is mentioned is only there so we can learn something from it.

In Genesis we are learning about the formation of the Hebrew nation - warts and all. Abram and Yitzchak and Yaakov were not perfect. They did good things, but they lied. (Admittedly, Rabbinical scholars will try and tie themselves up into knots showing they didn't lie, it's all a matter of what you put the comma and such, it's all about inflection, yadda yadda yadda, let's face it people - THEY LIED).

I mean Abram nearly sacraficed his own son, Yitzchak (Issac) was scarred after this and had a twisted relationship with his own children and Yaakov was only vaguely a father, always working, never coming home and checking on the Kids. As for the kids... well, if I were to try and sell my brother into bondage... I mean come on, these guys had Issues. And we - as Jews - learn from these issues. If it's there, it's there for a reason. Because we understand that the greatest of us had their faults.

And don't get me started on the story of Judah and Tamar. That one's a beauty and was never taught at school because the teacher would have needed to explain why Onan and his brother died... but you're coming to that... soon.

Anyway, I had a point, somewhere... oh yes - the Torah is historical in nature only in the fact that the events depicted are all true - according to Jews. But History is not why we read the Torah.

Even the 6 days of creation, leading to the 7th day teaches us a lesson. Not that dinosaurs don't exist, but that God rested and that relaxation is a metaphysical and spiritual concept.

Seeya,

Mondy

P.S. The Torah is in it's parchment form is not broken up into verses. It also has no vowels. Reading from it is a nightmare and an art that my father is brilliant at. The tune is gorgeous.

PS

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Of course I'm stil reading :-).

Yay!

Re: Genesis 13

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

So any historical event that is mentioned is only there so we can learn something from it.

That's something I was thinking about today - how dense it is, how many brief but compelling stories are packed in there. Even from the perspective of a non-believer, the idea that this is a collection of instructions or lessons, rather than a journal, makes a lot of sense - it's condensed cream of wisdom!

you're coming to that

As it were.

Re: Genesis 13

[(Anonymous)]

"you're coming to that

As it were."

Hehehehehehehehehe... naughty...

Seeya,

Mondy

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

But, orthodox Jews don't read the Torah as a historical text. According to Judaism, the Torah only tells us what we need to know. Anything superfulous is cut. So any historical event that is mentioned is only there so we can learn something from it.

I would agree with this as well. As Paul (himself a Jew and a lifelong student of Torah) remarked in the book of Romans:

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

And, since the Torah centres specifically on the formation and development of the nation of Israel as they relate to God, any historical incidents that do not directly play into Israel's national, and particularly their spiritual, development are omitted, or referred to only in passing.

The New Testament constantly draws on incidents and principles from the Torah to illustrate spiritual and practical truths -- from the obvious (Sodom and Gomorrah used as examples of complacent wickedness) to the not-so-obvious (Paul quoting "do not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain" as support for the teaching that those who preach the gospel full-time should be allowed to make a living doing so).