Dreamer Easy

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Now I'm always on the lookout for links between Mesopotamian and Biblical stuff, and I've never heard this thing about Marduk before! I'd love to follow it up - can you give me any more info?

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Well, of course Esther and Mordecai's names were of pagan origin -- like the names Belteshazzar, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Because the people who had those names were Jews who had been forcibly renamed by their pagan captors. Esther's original, Jewish name was Hadassah; we're not told what Mordecai's original name was. Anyway, the whole idea was to humiliate and subjugate the Jewish captives by taking away their given names, which often contained some reference to the God of Israel, and replacing them with names indicating that they were now "owned" by the gods of the Babylonians or the Medes or whoever.

And I find it very difficult to believe that the book of Esther was lifted from Sumerian mythology. There's nothing supernatural in Esther -- it's all politics. There isn't even any mention of God at all.

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replacing them with names indicating that they were now "owned" by the gods of the Babylonians

I am now sorry I didn't think to type that as "pwned".

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**Complete agreement**

with an addition: the book of Esther is from the Babylonian period in Jewish history, which is on the order of 1000 years after the story of Abraham.

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An asherah as the word is used in the Bible, is a grove of trees sacred to the local pagans. The context used is of the "you will cut down their asheras..." or "do not go near their asheras".

There was a Canaanite deity named Asherah, who appears to have been a fertility goddess. Not so much is known about her.

I'm not sure what you mean by "She was supposed to be..." - supposed by whom?

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FTR, as early as Deuteronomy 32:17 (and I think there is an earlier reference as well, though I can't recall where it is), the gods of the surrounding nations are referred to as "demons" (oh, there it is: Leviticus 17:7). The sentiment is repeated later in the book of Psalms (David), and in the New Testament book of 1 Corinthians (Paul). So rather than believing that YHWH was just the most powerful or "special" of the gods and that the gods of the surrounding nations were lesser or subordinate, the Law of Moses taught that YHWH was the only God, period, and that the other "gods" were demonic impostors.

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You got it right the first time - the term "the Living God" is very much a swipe at the various idolotrous groups. c.f. multiple psalms which talk about "they have eyes which cannot see, legs but cannot walk" referring to the idols of the Canaanites.

You could make a pretty decent sermon out of your second point...

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bwaaa!

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synaesthete7 said, the use of the names Mordechai and Esther is unsurprising, as Jews throughout history have adoped public names which are in the local language.

However, Mordechai isn't in Genesis - he only appears in Esther, which takes place something like 1000 years later.

There is a general ignorance of Biblical text among the Neopagan community - most folks read some secondary analytical sources, and then make assumptions based on those. I highly recommend Rabbi Joseph Telushkin's Biblical Literacy - it's a well-written easy read, and it can add a tremendous amount of information to the discussion (without being preachy or proselytizing).

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cedara

I read somewhere (can't remember the source) that at one point, the deity named Ashera was said to be Yahweh's wife, thus implying, that at one point in their history, the Canaanites had a couple as their head god and goddess.

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lillibet.livejournal.com

I wonder if you're reading David Plotz' column Blogging the Bible (http://www.slate.com/id/2150150/) on Slate. I'm finding it an amusing read (he's not a biblical scholar, by any stretch of the imagination, and he makes some very funny connections and observations). I think you might enjoy it, if you haven't already found it.

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adrian-middle.livejournal.com

Surely the use of a title for Yahweh by Marduk would be after Yahweh's properties were adopted following the ritual slaying of Yahweh by Marduk?

The process is called Daiwadana - when a conquering army captures a city, the perform a practice where the invaders' god ritually kills the defenders' god, formally transferring the allegiance of the defeated god's followers.

Esther's influence over Xerxes immediately precedes Ezra's revision of the Tanakh, at a time where Yahweh had fallen out of use (beause he was "dead") and the term Elohim was ascendant.

For a while the identities of Bel and El are synonymous, but Hebrew texts later separate them. Once Elohim has subsumed Marduk/Ba'al's divine identity, the supremacy of the Jewish god is restored.

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I've come across numerous references to Asherah as Mrs God in the scholarly literature, but I haven't yet had a chance to follow them up!

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*diz*

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Ooh! Sounds like the book I need.

FWIW, while there are fascinating parallels between the Babylonian creation story involving Marduk and the creation story in Genesis, they're extremely different. (Where there are word-for-word correspondences is elsewhere, in the Flood story.)

To me it seems very natural that Hebrew religious writing would share some imagery and concepts with their neighbours, though I'm not convinced that the Hebrews just "copied" stuff - there's too much in there that's unique.

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I tried to Google "Daiwadana" but couldn't find it - what's the origin of the word? (If there was an ANE practice of gods ritually slaughtering each other, I haven't come across it.)

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Now that's extremely interesting! From my quick rummagings online, including yet more Wikipedia as well as this interesting essay on the use of the word "demon" in Deuteronomy 32, I get the impression the Hebrew writers are demoting the gods of other nations - equating them with mere spirits, less powerful than God and unworthy of worship; and beyond that, to actual non-existence. So I can imagine monotheism developing in a series of steps: other gods exist, but don't worship them; other gods are subordinate to Yahweh, in fact, they're just spirits; other gods don't even exist.

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Only it doesn't seem to have "developed" beyond the original form of "other gods = demons", seeing that a thousand years later, the very Jewish apostle Paul was saying exactly the same thing.

I think the two ideas run parallel, myself: whether you take the angle that the gods of the nations are only demons or that the gods of the nations don't exist as advertised, the point is, there's only one real God.

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