It's a living

[dreamer_easy]

I assume Yahweh is referred to as "the living god" to contrast Him with lifeless idols. Now, my understanding is that the Hebrews were henotheists: their neighbours' gods existed, but were not to be worshipped, and in any case were subordinate to Yahweh. However, quick search turns up the first use of "the living god" in Deuteronomy. So now I'm wondering - did "living god" have a different meaning, for example, a deity without idols or images?

Comments

[drhoz.livejournal.com]

could be - it seems Abraham came up with a lot of it after deciding idols etc really didn't cut it compared to the real world he saw every day.. and then there's the whol "Yahweh as war-god, trying to prove he can cut it with every other job too"

[cedara]

And what about Ashera? She was supposed to be Yahweh's wife.

[thegameiam.livejournal.com]

An asherah as the word is used in the Bible, is a grove of trees sacred to the local pagans. The context used is of the "you will cut down their asheras..." or "do not go near their asheras".

There was a Canaanite deity named Asherah, who appears to have been a fertility goddess. Not so much is known about her.

I'm not sure what you mean by "She was supposed to be..." - supposed by whom?

[cedara]

I read somewhere (can't remember the source) that at one point, the deity named Ashera was said to be Yahweh's wife, thus implying, that at one point in their history, the Canaanites had a couple as their head god and goddess.

[thegameiam.livejournal.com]

Neal Stephenson postulated this in Snow Crash, but there was no source given there.

The little we know of Asherah the deity associates her with Ba'al Peor, not with the Hebrew God.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I've come across numerous references to Asherah as Mrs God in the scholarly literature, but I haven't yet had a chance to follow them up!

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Now I'm always on the lookout for links between Mesopotamian and Biblical stuff, and I've never heard this thing about Marduk before! I'd love to follow it up - can you give me any more info?

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[thegameiam.livejournal.com]

as synaesthete7 said, the use of the names Mordechai and Esther is unsurprising, as Jews throughout history have adoped public names which are in the local language.

However, Mordechai isn't in Genesis - he only appears in Esther, which takes place something like 1000 years later.

There is a general ignorance of Biblical text among the Neopagan community - most folks read some secondary analytical sources, and then make assumptions based on those. I highly recommend Rabbi Joseph Telushkin's Biblical Literacy - it's a well-written easy read, and it can add a tremendous amount of information to the discussion (without being preachy or proselytizing).

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Well, of course Esther and Mordecai's names were of pagan origin -- like the names Belteshazzar, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Because the people who had those names were Jews who had been forcibly renamed by their pagan captors. Esther's original, Jewish name was Hadassah; we're not told what Mordecai's original name was. Anyway, the whole idea was to humiliate and subjugate the Jewish captives by taking away their given names, which often contained some reference to the God of Israel, and replacing them with names indicating that they were now "owned" by the gods of the Babylonians or the Medes or whoever.

And I find it very difficult to believe that the book of Esther was lifted from Sumerian mythology. There's nothing supernatural in Esther -- it's all politics. There isn't even any mention of God at all.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

replacing them with names indicating that they were now "owned" by the gods of the Babylonians

I am now sorry I didn't think to type that as "pwned".

[thegameiam.livejournal.com]

**Complete agreement**

with an addition: the book of Esther is from the Babylonian period in Jewish history, which is on the order of 1000 years after the story of Abraham.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

FTR, as early as Deuteronomy 32:17 (and I think there is an earlier reference as well, though I can't recall where it is), the gods of the surrounding nations are referred to as "demons" (oh, there it is: Leviticus 17:7). The sentiment is repeated later in the book of Psalms (David), and in the New Testament book of 1 Corinthians (Paul). So rather than believing that YHWH was just the most powerful or "special" of the gods and that the gods of the surrounding nations were lesser or subordinate, the Law of Moses taught that YHWH was the only God, period, and that the other "gods" were demonic impostors.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Now that's extremely interesting! From my quick rummagings online, including yet more Wikipedia as well as this interesting essay on the use of the word "demon" in Deuteronomy 32, I get the impression the Hebrew writers are demoting the gods of other nations - equating them with mere spirits, less powerful than God and unworthy of worship; and beyond that, to actual non-existence. So I can imagine monotheism developing in a series of steps: other gods exist, but don't worship them; other gods are subordinate to Yahweh, in fact, they're just spirits; other gods don't even exist.

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Only it doesn't seem to have "developed" beyond the original form of "other gods = demons", seeing that a thousand years later, the very Jewish apostle Paul was saying exactly the same thing.

I think the two ideas run parallel, myself: whether you take the angle that the gods of the nations are only demons or that the gods of the nations don't exist as advertised, the point is, there's only one real God.

[adrian-middle.livejournal.com]

The treatment of other gods as demons was an entirely etymological development brought about by the differentiation of the Zoroastrian asuras and the daevas. Its basically about winners and losers - the conquered gods became tainted with evil, while the victorious gods were *obviously* those worthy of worship.

Its interesting that the resurrection of a god is used repeatedly throughout ancient history as a means of reinstating a slain god - Osiris, Marduk (again) and of course Yahweh, who managed it twice.

[thegameiam.livejournal.com]

You got it right the first time - the term "the Living God" is very much a swipe at the various idolotrous groups. c.f. multiple psalms which talk about "they have eyes which cannot see, legs but cannot walk" referring to the idols of the Canaanites.

You could make a pretty decent sermon out of your second point...

[lillibet.livejournal.com]

I wonder if you're reading David Plotz' column Blogging the Bible (http://www.slate.com/id/2150150/) on Slate. I'm finding it an amusing read (he's not a biblical scholar, by any stretch of the imagination, and he makes some very funny connections and observations). I think you might enjoy it, if you haven't already found it.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

That is very cheeky. I like it. :-)

[adrian-middle.livejournal.com]

It almost certainly has its origins in the En?lish - the term daiwa comes from Sanskrit, and the practice seen throughout Mesopotamian myth, though rarely explicitly. Daiwa- has the same root as daeva- or div-, which originally meant "God" but was later used to mean "God tainted by evil".

I think the primary example is Marduk's slaying of Tiamat, which paralleled Hammurabi's rise to power. Outside of Marduk's many, many conquests, the practice is implicit rather than explicit.

Any good examination of Persian conquest and religion should discuss it. I think I first came across it in a biography of Alexander the Great, who adopted a similar practice.

Its not been used in fiction much, and its rare for me to cite Anne Rice as a source for anything, but ISTR that her stand-alone novel Servant of the Bones touched on it as well.

[adrian-middle.livejournal.com]

En?lish = Enuma Elish, The Babylonian Book of Creation.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

This may have been a feature of Persian religion, but I've never come across it in Sumerian or Babylonian religion, explicitly or implicitly. Enuma Elish postdates Hammurabi by a millennium. If Tiamat had a cult anywhere, AFAIK no record of it has been found. I'm not aware of any other god said to have been killed by Marduk - rather, the rest of the pantheon elect him as their leader.

[adrian-middle.livejournal.com]

Well the Seven Tablets are subject to a lot of interpretation. During the course of the story Marduk doesn't just get *elected* as leader, he *becomes* the other gods. The fifty names of Marduk emphasise his ascendance to become Lord of the Gods through "acquisition".

The evidence of Marduk's conquests lies in the evidence of Hammurabi's. Cities were synonymous with gods, and Marduk was Hammurabi's patron, and was attributed with the foundation of Edridu. Thus every conquered city represented a god whose attributes were assumed by Marduk. By 1000BC Marduk was a supreme god, having subsumed every cult in the Eurphrates - only Asshur in Assyria could rival him. Indeed, many of the representations of Marduk show him with the weapons and symbols of other gods, including Tishpak's snake-dragon and a spade.