(no subject)

[dreamer_easy]

Following up the references in Bury, snagged a couple more books on how men and women communicate, and almost immediately discovered my problem and its solution:

"It is also worth noting that aggressively negative questioning often leads people to take up entrenched positions - especially in a public debate - and little cognitive progress is made when this happens. Defensiveness is not an attitude which encourages creative thinking. Supportive elicitations and modified criticisms are much more likely to facilitate good quality open-ended discussion or productive exploratory talk."
- Janet Holmes, Women, Men, and Politeness

Well, dur, you may remark. My problem has been - is - that I sometimes provoke that defensiveness with my bluntness, my "bald disagreement", then get annoyed by all the defensive talk and only become even more blunt. What I have to accept is that, if I want a good discussion, I need to try to avoid provoking defensive responses in the first place, regardless of what I may think of that kind of reaction. (Intriguingly, as ChiTARDIS showed, I'm seldom so blunt in face-to-face communication - not only is this a "male" way of speaking, it's also an Internet way of speaking, terse and to the point. Or, to put it another way: tl;dr.)

More on this shortly.

Comments

[spastasmagoria.livejournal.com]

Here's a question--are you really less blunt face-to-face, or does your non-verbal communication soften the blow? Most of our communication is non-verbal, so it's no doubt you 'come off' as completely different in person than online.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

No, I think I really am less blunt! I'm hazily aware that, with real-time feedback from (for example) a convention panel audience, I tend to add a lot more qualifying statements, try to defuse things with humour more, etc. In short, I behave more politely. At ChiTARDIS I went about apologising for my past behaviour online, but then immediately fell back into my usual habits - I guess the revelation I had at the con is the beginning of a process, not the end of it!

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

goddamn it, why is acting masculine or "male" always wrong?

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I think, in my case, I need to modify my "masculine" style with more "feminine" politeness. So it's not a matter of the "male" style being wrong - in fact, an exaggeratedly "female" style would make disagreement and real discussion impossible.

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

You, impolite? (swearing doesn't count) Gosh. I can't see it myself. Honest, blunt, straightforward (usually) To which I would say - keep it up. Extreme politeness usually has me looking behind my back for daggers :)

Of course you are talking about a healthy balance, and that's great. I'm sure it's something we can all strive for. Except me, I like being obnoxous on occasion just to see where the fur will fly.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I don't actually mean to stir up trouble, I just do. Although admitted flying fur is often very entertaining.

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

It isn't... as long as you're in the company of people who expect and understand male behaviour. Alas, most women do not expect or understand male behaviour, because they are more accustomed to female behaviour from others, and more inclined to female behaviour themselves. And most men do not undersatnd male behaviour because they're disclined to understand human behaviour in general, and do not expect male behaviour in others because obviously *no one* is as manly as them! =:o}

(Yes, I am a traitor to my sex. Oh, the shame... =:o> )

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

Personally I've never been particularly impressed with "feminine" politeness, possibly because I find men and women have a tendency to be rude in different ways. Believe me, girls DON'T PLAY NICE either, it's just that they're more underhand about it.

Of course the idea of being "a traitor to my sex." is an interesting one, given that a good many men have brains with "female" strengths and vice versa. Perhaps then, we have already been betrayed.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

We're taught to suppress our anger, so it leaks out in passive aggressive bullshit, like slagging people off behind a flock, or scribbling on fandom's toilet walls (fandom_wank, the anon Who meme, etc). Of course, dick measuring contests aren't much better, but at least boys and men are expected to get their aggression out into the open and resolve it.