(no subject)

[dreamer_easy]

Oh, man. Maybe the Valium last night wasn't such a good idea. I've been scrambleheaded ever since, and I don't know whether it's depression, anxiety, the drugz, or some combination of these.

The local fundamentalists popped a brochure in the post box. "True Christianity is founded on a belief on Jesus Christ, and is not based upon any of our works." Various Bible quotes follow. This was Martin Luther's idea, wasn't it? It's brilliant. It gets rid of all that awkward stuff about having to give other people your money and simplifies religion into a pyramid scheme. [ETA: The thing about Luther was a wee bit seriously uninformed on my part - see the comments. Recommend me a beginner's book on theology!]

Comments

[thedorkygirl.livejournal.com]

i agree with your last paragraph so much

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

It's the hugest, cleverest, and most dangerous religious innovation since "if you sin, the crops fail".

[zombie-buddha.livejournal.com]

The corrollary to 'Faith, not Works' is that if you have actual faith you'll do good works anyway. It's a reaction to the prevailing attitude in Catholic Europe at the time that one could buy his way into heaven.

[murasaki-1966.livejournal.com]

And look what we eneded up with: prosperity Christianity. I hope Luther is pleased with himself.

[jblum.livejournal.com]

"Greed is God." -- St. Gordon of Gekko

[murasaki-1966.livejournal.com]

I really hate prosperity Christians. "I'm rich, so God must favour me". Not, it probably means you screwed everyone you've ever know since you were two to get ahead.

[lonely-otter.livejournal.com]

Luther was trying to end incredibly corrupt church practices. You can hardly blame him for how his idea has mutated 500 years later, as if he should have known somehow. Protestantism has a lot to be said for it as far as the position of women in society is concerned and I'm not sorry it happened.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

(Psst - Reverend - your clothes!)

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

The brochure talks about that: "True Christianity is marked by a change in life towards holiness". It goes on to lament how seldom this actually happens. Which either means that Faith doesn't necessarily lead to Works, or that Works are actually necessary for salvation, because you can tell if someone is a True Christian or not by their Works. I think!

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

Faith is sufficient for salvation; Works are the only credible external evidence of faith.

If a person finds genuine faith on their death bed but has no opportunity to perform any good works before they snuff it, they are still saved.

There is of course a reasonable time lag to be expected between the arrival of faith, which creates a *motivation* to good works, and a person actually figuring out what/when/how/where/to whom to do any good works, and then getting a chance to actually do it.

But if a person claims to find faith in jail, gets released on grounds of their "transformed character", but then goes on to triple their score of rapes and murders in their first week of freedom... It's just possible they were lying about the faith bit. =:o\ (I am *NOT* in favour of granting prisoners early release on the grounds of claimed religious conversion, since the state is rarely in a position to judge whether that conversion is genuine. The state whould make its decisions based on the evidence available to it; Let God take care of those decisions that need to be based on evidence that is only available to God.)

Also: It wasn't Luther's idea, although he certainly did a lot to re-popularise it. St. Paul spells out the "it's by grace we're saved, through faith, so that no one can boast" message pretty plainly and tends to major on that, because he was arguing against a bunch of people who were saying "these gentiles can't be considered saved until they start doing what our law requires them to". Meanwhile, St.James emphasises the point about "you show me your faith without works, buddy [implict: Bet you can't, though, can ya? Ner!], and I'll show you my faith by what I do!", because he was arguing against a bunch of folks who were claiming to be saved but doing sod all to help anybody but themselves, and using Paul's words as justification.

In other words: "There's nothing new under the Son". =:o}

[ETA:] I am also not claiming (and nor was St. Paul, or St. James) that faith is the *only* effective motivation to do good works. See the quote "when those who do not have the law fulfil the requirements of the law, they are a law unto themselves; their own consciences now judge them, now pardon them" (or something like that)

(Somehow, that phrase "a law unto themselves", originally meant as a validation of non-Christian/Jewish/whatever "good conscience", got twisted into a cynical comment about people who don't respect authority. =:o\ )

[ikhet-sekhmet.livejournal.com]

Belatedly - ta muchly, this is very helpful! Especially the bit about Paul and James. There's an awful lot of stuff about not boasting in the NT, isn't there? (I still need to get a decent beginner's book on theology - the Very Short Introduction was useless.)

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

[TIPS HAT]

The emphasis on not boasting is one of those things that tends to skew people's perception of mainstream christianity, because the easiest way to not be caught boasting is to be invisible, or failing that at least fail to ever declare anything good you've ever done. This leaves free reign for the more egocentric subset of christians to shape the public perception of what christianity looks like. =:o\

For my money, after years of taking the "keep quiet about everything good about yourself" route (following my Mum's example as well as my reading of the NT), I see the challenge of "not boasting" as this: Do not hesitate to admit to your failings alongside your virtues; Simply be matter of fact about both. Where you've done something good, don't be the first to mention it, unless it's important for someone else to know what's happening (e.g. if you've set up a support fund for people who've accidentally lost their bus tickets, it's a bit stupid to not tell the person who's dejectedly taking their first steps home in the rain! If a few onlookers overhear what you say, don't sweat it). But if someone else brings it up, simply acknowledge it and move on. Above all, don't go *seeking* acclaim unless it's tactically necessary to achieving further good. (As in a job interview: You have to be able to show what you've done well in the past, to get a chance to carrying doing your job well in future; But you show it to the person who needs to know, rather than publishing it far and wide. Trouble is, modern jobhunting works largely by publishing your CV so that employers and recruiters can basically Google it. Jobhunting is one of my least favourite experiences in life, 'cos it goes against a lifetime's habit of (over-)modesty. =:o\

Re. Beginner's guide to theology:
I'm finding that the Wikipedia pages on most theological topics are surprisingly full and balanced and well written, especially on the more obscure topics. It's the hot potatoes between evangelicals and other groups that get a fair bit of amendment warring... And that just tends to highlight how narrow the focus of modern evangelical hot-heads tends to be. =:o\ (...Says the former evangelical hot-head,
now hybrid evangelical/liberal cool-cat with mutant atheist-friendly super-powers. =:o} )

The trick of course is knowing enough of the theological *terms* to know what to seach for. =:o\

Any particlar topics you'd like a briefing on? I'd be happy to help out.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Fuck Luther - Kent has an lj?! *examines* Bwa ha ah ah aha

[acelightning.livejournal.com]