dreamer_easy: (SHE STANDS UP AGAIN)
I have, basically, been asleep all day. I knew I was a bit run down after a crazy week, but blimey. Have some links.

Bullying

Bullying in Australian primary schools is in the worst category in the world. Of year 4 students, more than a quarter had been bullied in at least three ways in the previous month - almost 50% above the international average.

A recent Australian Institute of Family Studies report, Working with families concerned with school-based bullying, opens with an overview of the problem.


The Gentle Art of Disputation

Character Attacks: How to Properly Apply the Ad Hominem

Beyond flaming: how to fight fair online

Internet Drama and You. teh lol (and useful, too)

The Incestuous Amplification Effect explains how groupthink works.

Stadtler and Waldorf elucidate the Intersplat
dreamer_easy: (JUST ATTACK EVERYTHING!)
Do you remember the extract from Don Watson's little book, On Indignation, which I linked to back in October? I got hold of the book, and not only is it terribly funny (generally when you least expect it) it also taught me a few things about myself, as well as more about fandom than most of the academic books on the subject have or will.

Indignation is distinct from anger; is exaggerated; is about a bruise on the ego. It results from a perceived slight, such as impertinence from a lower status person, an insult to an extension of one's self ("our children or our dog, our car or refrigerator, our God, our horse"... our favourite story or ship, our fanfic, our opinions). An indignant person's "real or presumed self has been threatened, [causing] an all but irresistable need to get on one's high horse and brain the offender at once." It's possible to give unintentional offence by blundering into someone else's sense of self-worth, causing them to explode into inexplicable rage, "outbursts out of all proportion to the offence, capable of causing lethal strokes or heart attacks in the offended and painful if not actually dangerous to bystanders."

"Anger obliterates personality," remarks Watson, but "Indignation expresses it" - a rich source of drama and comedy. There's righteous indignation, and there's unrighteous indignation, the refusal to conform and obey: "Among people who fear God and value peace and harmony, the chronically wilful represent the greatest threat." Shock jocks whip up righteous indignation, and feed on it. Politicians use it to "bolster [themselves], reduce others and manipulate as many as possible". Or it may gag us: how many times have you seen someone post "There are no words" instead of actually saying something?

Watson's insights helped me see my own indignation in online debates: "How can you say something so stupid! I'm speechless! No, wait, let me write several thousand words about it." :)
dreamer_easy: (TENTH DOCTOR)
Following up the references in Bury, snagged a couple more books on how men and women communicate, and almost immediately discovered my problem and its solution:
"It is also worth noting that aggressively negative questioning often leads people to take up entrenched positions - especially in a public debate - and little cognitive progress is made when this happens. Defensiveness is not an attitude which encourages creative thinking. Supportive elicitations and modified criticisms are much more likely to facilitate good quality open-ended discussion or productive exploratory talk."
- Janet Holmes, Women, Men, and Politeness
Well, dur, you may remark. My problem has been - is - that I sometimes provoke that defensiveness with my bluntness, my "bald disagreement", then get annoyed by all the defensive talk and only become even more blunt. What I have to accept is that, if I want a good discussion, I need to try to avoid provoking defensive responses in the first place, regardless of what I may think of that kind of reaction. (Intriguingly, as ChiTARDIS showed, I'm seldom so blunt in face-to-face communication - not only is this a "male" way of speaking, it's also an Internet way of speaking, terse and to the point. Or, to put it another way: tl;dr.)

More on this shortly.
dreamer_easy: (BRAINS)
I said: Discussing the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival recently, which has long excluded transwomen who don't "share the experience of growing up under patriarchy", I wondered if I'd qualify as a woman by that definition, lacking so many female experiences: never been raped, never experienced intimate violence, never been pregnant. For that matter, I've only worn makeup a handful of times.

Multiple commenters remarked that rape was not "part of being female" and one disputed that "most women have been raped". Now the confusion is partly my fault for being unclear, so I've clarified what I meant in the comments - that rape is an experience of a large proportion of women "under patriarchy". But think about this: why were the only objections to the mention of rape? Why didn't anyone argue pregnancy is not an automatic part of being female, or dispute that "most women have been bashed by a boyfriend or husband"?
dreamer_easy: (CONTRARIAN)
Oh dear. Last night I realised I'm something even worse a troll: I'm a contrarian. Someone who takes a contrary position. Jon and I often lament our Interplodge participation as being essentially reactive: someone talks rubbish, we put out the debunking kit, with a sigh and a slightly demented grin. (In my case this stems partly from 90s backlash bullshit; my activism, such as it is, arose from countering anti-feminist lies on Usenet. In Jon's case it involves an awful lot of looking things up in DWM.) The nature of the net channels a lot of discourse into this, erm, channel: someone says something, someone else disagrees, and back and forth it goes, sometimes for years on end. This habitual contrariety allows others to set the agenda, so you're always battling on someone else's turf, but it does have two advantages: one, when you have already been branded a troll/racist/misogynist/whatever, you have nothing to lose and can therefore speak your mind freely; and two, you can catch fresh insights when they arise from the melee like new-hatched butterflies, while everyone else is busy violently agreeing with each other. And sometimes violently agreeing with you, which is always entertaining: sometimes when you cede a point to an opponent, they are so confused that they try to argue you out of it.

dreamer_easy: (Default)
Having said all that, I think the biggest single problem with online debate, including fannish debate, isn't logic; it's bullshit.

Here I mean the Henri Frankfort definition of bullshit: a claim made by someone who doesn't know or care if it's true. It doesn't matter how exacting your reasoning is, if you put garbage in, you get garbage out. Rose's dimensional cannon broke down the walls of reality, she abandoned Mickey at the end of Boomtown, the Sixth Doctor pushed two guards into an acid bath, etc. Fans rarely bother to pull out the DVD or pick up the book or even Google the bloody thing. (And this is without getting into cherrypicking the facts which fit our views while ignoring anything which awkwardly contradicts them.)

Well, these debates aren't really that important, so it doesn't matter if we talk a lot of crap out of sheer bloody laziness. Does it? It's not as though anyone ever ends up seething or in tears, or that friendships get wrecked. Is it?

I picked up a book today about the attack on research into violence against women by conservative, anti-feminist women's organisations, which took me back to the fun I had in the nineties on Usenet. My feminism began as debunking; I wrote essays on the research into date rape and domestic violence, specifically to counter the online lies. These were lies, too, not just bullshit - deliberate distortions of the truth, sometimes clumsy, sometimes subtle. I called other people on their facts, and they called me on mine, and I learned very quickly not to post something unless I'd verified it for myself - even if that information had come from someone on my side.

Those debates were actually important - well, more important than whether Gwen is an evil slut, anyway - and what they taught me about facts and logic has been invaluable. (What they taught me about how to intereact with other human beings, rather less so.) I fret a little that fans lack a basic, healthy scepticism which is crucial in analysing what politicians and the press feed us every day. We just believe any old thing. And we're suppose to be the ones with the ridiculously detailed knowledge of the show, the ones who nitpick!
dreamer_easy: (CITATION NEEDED)
So why get into pointless arguments online - as I have been doing for the last 15 years? Habit, ego, indignation... and in the face of the craziness, the inability to shake the delusion that people are basically rational. All I have to do is explain something the right way, and they'll get it.

Alas, our brains did not evolve to think rationally - to use facts and logic - any more than they evolved to understand probability or physics, which is why we think heavy objects fall faster and that we might win the Lotto. Debate (in fandom, in politics, everywhere) is almost never about seeking the truth by testing out different ideas. It's about (a) which side you're on and (b) your self-esteem. People on my team, the Blues, are good and right, and the other team, the Greens, are unfair and mean. By extension, I am good and right.

This leads to many of the most familiar logical fallacies. Everybody knows argumentum ad hominem, the personal attack, an attempt to discredit the argument by slagging off the speaker. Unfortunately, someone can act like a complete asshole and still have a good point (Richard Dawkins, me, etc). They can also be a total hypocrite and still be right: "You're a fine one to talk" is the fallacy called tu quoque, which is Latin for NO U. (Watch out: abuse can rebound on the attacker.)

The "straw man" is also familiar - distorting an opponent's argument and then attacking the distortion. Beware retorts which start, "Right, because..." This isn't always malicious; online debate is swift and shallow and few participants really give much of a damn, driving the small proportion who do care about it out of our tiny minds.

Another familiar fallacy is argumentum ad populum: lots of people believe this, so it must be true. Online, this often appears as the result of groupthink: all my mates say this, so everyone says this (so it must be true). When RTD dismisses fandom's complaints as a couple of hundred loudmouths, he's pulling the rug out from under this fallacy. You'd think the shipwar involved a thousand fans; in reality, it's only about a dozen people making a lot of noise.

Maddeningly, the exact opposite is also common: the fallacy called "hasty generalisation". A single posting can become "what everyone thinks" or "what the Blues say". (And of course, if you're a Blue, you obviously hold that opinion too.)

A fun one which Jon's always encountering in OG is the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, which goes something like this:

A: The new show is a failure.
J: Actually, it's a success - look at the high ratings.
A: The public will watch any old rubbish. It's a failure with the fans.
J: Erm, actually, it's very popular with the fans, too.
A: Not with real fans.

We are not born knowing these things are fallacies, any more than we're born knowing that if a coin comes up heads ten times, the chance it will come up heads on the eleventh toss is still just one in two. It's not a matter of intelligence or virtue, but learning to use the tools that will give us the right answers.

And, crucially, allowing ourselves to be wrong. This is one of the hardest and most useful things anyone can do in an argument. I bloody hate to be wrong. Being wrong has, on occasion, freaked me out so badly that I could barely function. But if your goal is to test ideas to find the truth, what choice do you have? Disconnect being right from your self-esteem; attach honesty instead. (If nothing else, it will confuse the hell out of your opponent.)
dreamer_easy: (DEBUNKING)
zomg, xkcd did a comic of ME!



Heh. Although I've seen two different people make patently untrue claims about events in the new Who in the last two days, and I've gritted my teeth and ignored them both. All is ease and comfort. This is incredibly confronting. Who I am, if I'm not my anger?
dreamer_easy: (medical all too much)
As I mentioned earlier, Chicago TARDIS proved to be the cure for Internet fandom: the sound of laughter beats the silence of snark hands down. Unfortunately it also triggers a painful recollection of one's own online behaviour. For example: I can't quite believe that, on more than one occasion, I have bet online fans money they were wrong. Fandom's negligent, nay, cavalier attitude to fact is infuriating, of course, but can you imagine doing that to someone's face?! (Hell, even if you did, it would be defused by the exchange of visible signals - "what the shit", "I am not entirely serious", etc.) Egad. Jon had the good sense to apologise at the con for everything he has ever said on the Intersplat, and I more or less followed suit. As a forum for discussion, the net is worse than useless: I shall henceforth dedicate myself to essays (and, on contentious convention panels, shall fall silent and observe).

In related news, I have somehow managed to order two copies of the S4 boxed set, neither of which contains the promised outtakes. Blat. :P

Speak True

Nov. 17th, 2007 08:24 pm
dreamer_easy: (bitchplease)
An unpleasant reminder from teh OG today of just how bad most online debate is. Snark replaces insight, jibes replace facts, the "battle of the sexes" replaces feminism, and a general high dudgeon replaces righteousness.

I thought it might be useful to reproduce part of the Introduction to my long-defunct Web site, Kate's Feminism Page, which contains my thoughts on online arguments. In it, I mostly talk about statistics and research, but what I say about insisting on the facts, in your own postings and in everyone else's, applies equally to fannish debate - including exactly what was said and exactly who said it. Fandom is appallingly sloppy about this, from shoving words in opponents' mouths to inventing RTD "quotes" from whole cloth.

Read more... )
dreamer_easy: (Default)
*electricity goes from one side of Kate's brane to the other*

1. Invocation of particular scientist as authority
2. Invocation of trustworthy religious figures as authorities
3. Reports in Hadith judged by good reputation of reporters
4. Mediaeval reliance on authorities (eg classical authors) vs Renaissance investigation
5. Galileo counts the horse's teeth while friends debate what Aristotle said on the subject (apocryphal)
6. Change from reliance on authority to reliance on own investigation an Enlightenment phenomenon?
7. Cf C19 upheavals leading to Fundamentalism?
dreamer_easy: (coffee)
I've been meaning to jot this down for ages - a useful guide to translating real-world numbers into Internet mathematics.

few -> none
rarely -> never
some -> all
many -> all
a majority -> all
often -> always
many -> most
dreamer_easy: (currentaffairs)
Numerous letters in today's SMH responding to yesterday's article defending torture at Guantanamo Bay. Amongst the points the letter writers make:

- The Chicago Tribune news report cited does not support the article's premise - that torture has saved civilian lives. (I have a copy of the news report, so more on this later.)
- Some of the prisoners were not captured on the battlefield, but "taken, unarmed, in neutral countries".
- The article understates the severity of the abuse (if Gitmo's practices were merely "mild discomfort", then the abuses at Abu Ghraib were "positively bad manners"!).

It's heartening that the responses aren't just vague handwringing about the nastiness of torture. The article is misleading (in my view, intentionally misleading), and the writer's case can be attacked solidly on facts and logic.
dreamer_easy: (asimov [by icons_osi])
I can't remember how this got into my bookmarks - if you're the person who pointed it out to me, I thank you:

Nancy Kress, An SF Moderate Climbs Cautiously Onto the Barricades

There's one more possible answer the question, ''So what if there's a relative dearth of credible characters in SF?'' It's the answer given by the young fan I mentioned at the New York convention last year. He said it was ''satisfying to just see the good guys mow down the bad guys.'' Well, perhaps it is. I have no quarrel with his view of ''satisfying,'' since that word is purely subjective, and who can say what is or isn't satisfying to somebody else? However, I did have a quarrel, loudly expressed, when he added that he wouldn't read anything with complicated characters in it ''because SF shouldn't be work.'' At that point, he had crossed the line from subjective reaction to evaluation of a genre. And evaluation implies the existence of some sort of standard against which one is measuring. He was saying that reality, in all its conflict of values and obligations and desires and needs, is not an appropriate standard for SF. Technological plausibility is an appropriate standard; magical inventiveness is an appropriate standard; societal consistency is an appropriate standard. But plausibility of characters, inventiveness of the amazing facets of human personality, consistency with human diversity and even sheer human cussedness -- those are standards for mainstream, not for us.

(Emphasis added. If I had a dime for every time Who fanboys crossed that line, I'd have a whole s***-load of dimes.)

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