Sweet, maybe… passionate, I suppose… but don’t ever mistake that for nice.

[dreamer_easy]

"Niceness, of course, can serve a person well. People like to be near you. You don't alienate people because you rarely contradict them. You are eternally bouncy and chipper and content and respectful. But in being nice, you have to walk a very fine line. Niceness can work for you or against you, and unless you are loaded with charisma, constant niceness can spell disaster. For to be truly nice, you must veil what you think and feel. Since being nice is really about seeking the approval of others, you slide into the habit of being deferential. You give in on things rather than put up a fight. [...] In essence, we allow others to take advantage of us. And many of us feel compelled to do it again and again. After all, as we know, people don't like women who aren't nice."
- Leora Tanenbaum, Catfight: why women compete with each other, pp 170-1

I can't even sit down and read this book properly from cover to cover. It just makes me want to cry. I recognise so many of my own experiences, and so much of the nonsense that goes on inside my own head.

Comments

[jvowles.livejournal.com]

In the wonderful musical INTO THE WOODS, the sweets-addicted Red Riding Hood (who seems to lack the ability to filter her thoughts before they come out of her mouth, rather like Anya on Buffy) sings about the lessons she learned from the incident with the Wolf....

"Do not put your faith in a cape and a hood
they will not protect you the way that they should
and take extra care with strangers
even flowers have their dangers
and though scary is exciting
nice is different than good."

[qthewetsprocket.livejournal.com]

quoth my girl, the witch, to the oh-so-polite baker and cinderella:

'you're so nice...you're not good, you're not bad,
you're just nice...
i'm not good, i'm not nice, i'm just right -
i'm the witch; you're the world.'

it's hard to be the witch in a cinderella world. but it's worth it.

into the woods = best. musical. EVER.

[murasaki-1966.livejournal.com]

Yes, but its shares the honours with Sweeney Todd. Both are fantastic.

[nyssa-p.livejournal.com]

Just curious, is there a chapter in there on passive-aggressiveness? I seem to get into those sorts of situations a lot with other women - a lot coming to me, but I realise that I usually "fight fire with fire" and then end up burning the whole house down :S

[zeusgirl.livejournal.com]

Have you read Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office, by Lois Frankel? It covers very similar territory. I found it very interesting reading.

[ajponder.livejournal.com]

I seemed to remember that the word "nice" itself had a debatable history,

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976719643 unfortunately a quick look only turned up this which is a start at least.

Oh and... "The word nice meant stupid and foolish in the late 13th Century. It went through a number of changes including wanton, extravagant, elegant, strange, modest, thin, and shy. By the middle of the 18th Century it had gained its current meaning of pleasant and agreeable."

Although if it wasn't for dictionaries I expect that it would of flopped again because it's just too easy to say something is "nice" and mean the opposite.

Isn't that nice.

so you see how important it is never to actually be nice, and if anybody says that you're "not nice", take it was obviously meant - as a compliment.

[alawston.livejournal.com]

Since being nice is really about seeking the approval of others...

To be honest, that just sounds like bitter horseshit to me.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Hmm. You may be working from a different definition to Tanenbaum, who isn't referring to (for example) courtesy.

[alawston.livejournal.com]

I can only work from the context provided by your extract, as I have zero inclination to read any more of her work - I can see that her definition runs broader than mere 'courtesy' but I still smell rancid equine poo, I'm afraid.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Well, her definition is pretty clear from the extract - that false, pandering, shallow facade of inoffensive conformity, which goes hand in hand with backstabbing and other passive aggressive madness. It has little to do with genuine concern for others and everything to do with avoiding open conflict at all costs so as to remain Popular. She's not talking about compassion or consideration, but sucking up.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]