More about self harm

[dreamer_easy]

I've been doing a little bit of reading online. I'm still finding no evidence that teens self-harm to fake depression because it's trendy. What I am learning is that self-harm is common, but sometimes dismissed as mere attention-seeking. (There is a hugely obvious parallel here with sexual assault which I am just not getting into.)

Thinking about it more, I realised that I have engaged in self harm on a few occasions - thankfully, I have never injured myself or even drawn blood. I have pulled my own hair, slapped myself in the face (this is quite funny to think about now - try and picture it!) and pushed the tip of a pen into my hand. Luckily these were all isolated occasions; my shrink explained that if you start hurting yourself, it can become powerfully addictive.

I think the most disturbing remark in the metaquotes discussion that prompted these postings was one about trendy kids making "shallow cuts on their wrists" - in other words, fake suicide attempts to grab attention. In fact, cutting on the arms is one of the most common forms of self-harm: on the occasions when I have felt the impulse to hurt myself, that's what I've felt like doing. And seemingly minor injuries can be the symptoms of major distress.

Check out this info from the UK's National Self Harm Network. Also, the one time I came close to cutting myself, a page of advice from Australia's Reach Out helped a lot.

Comments

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

Good on you for saying all this.

Yes, there is a tendency for teens to act out to seek attention - a phase most of them grow out of (although in my experience, some just become senior company executives or minor civil servants instead) - and I can imagine that it *could* go as far as cutting oneself to get attention... But no one should ever be assuming that as the first explanation! *Especially* if there's evidence it's happened more than once. Kids sometimes do stupid things to look cool, or just to find out what it's like; but in such cases, once they realise the stupid thing *hurts* (or how badly it could hurt if it went wrong), they don't do it again!

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

But no one should ever be assuming that as the first explanation!\

Exactly right!

[zeusgirl.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'd characterise shallow cuts as "fake suicide attempts". I think there is quite a difference between them.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

From my online reading, and from the urges inside my own head, it's pretty clear that the impulse to cut, and the thoughts about dying, are quite separate things. It made me terribly angry that someone in that metaquotes thread dismissed cutting as faking a suicide attempt - but apparently this is a common belief. >:-(

[zeusgirl.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see.

Sorry for suggesting/implying/thinking it was your view, rather than the metaquotes' view.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Not at all - it was worth clarifying.

[katiger.livejournal.com]

http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/intro.html is another good site to look at if you're interested. It's probably the most comprehensive site on self harm I've come across. It also has a massive message board community.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

*bookmarks* Thanks!

[antikythera.livejournal.com]

Depressed people often engage in self-destructive behaviours (physical self-harm, verbal or emotional self-flagellation) because it's a sort of quick fix to feeling good if other people respond with sympathy. It's not healthy, but they don't know any healthy way to handle those feelings.

It's hard for a bystander to know what to do in such situations -- if you respond with sympathy, are you helping them and showing that you care, or are you just enabling behaviour that they need to find a way out of? When someone does that constantly and you respond with sympathy and coddles every time, it's draining. You know that it's bad for them and bad for you, but you don't know any other way to respond that wouldn't be taken as heartless.

The only 'fake' is the person who says they're going to do something to themselves but never really intends to. I once had a screaming fit of rage in which I said I'd kill myself if the kids at school wouldn't leave me alone. But I never actually wanted to die, and when I realised I'd frightened my mother by saying that, I never said it again because I didn't actually mean it.

I'm not sure how many people are out there who say, melodramatically, 'I cut myself today' because they know it'll get attention even though they never did such a thing and have no desire to.

[platypus]

When someone does that constantly and you respond with sympathy and coddles every time, it's draining. You know that it's bad for them and bad for you, but you don't know any other way to respond that wouldn't be taken as heartless.

I had this problem during my worst period of depression. One of my friends, who I'd stood by relentlessly when HE was deeply depressed, got sick of me because I was becoming a drag. It was a bit ironic. I realize that you can only cry wolf so many times before you cease to get a response, but the problem was that for me there was always a damned wolf.

In my case, at least, the thing that would have been helpful would have been for this person -- or anybody -- to encourage me to get help. Sympathy and coddles, well, a little, but to quickly go on to, "Have you called anybody? Do you want help finding some numbers?" That would have gotten me going much sooner, because I was having a hell of a time doing it myself, or believing I deserved to. Or believing it was serious enough, stuck in my head without any sense of perspective.

People won't always accept that kind of help, and you're not always good enough friends to push it, but I don't know what else to do. Having been on the other side, I'm a bit wary of the heartless enough-of-this-already sort of response.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Even I've felt that way sometimes, and I ought to know better! It is very hard on the people around you, especially your loved ones, which is of course a massive source of guilt for the depressed person.

One of the best things Jon ever did for me was insist I get a new shrink. I was a mess and my shrink at the time wasn't helping - the new guy turned out to be brilliant. I couldn't have rallied my own resources to get a new referral at that point, so I needed a friendly boot up the bum. :-)

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Depressed people often engage in self-destructive behaviours (physical self-harm, verbal or emotional self-flagellation) because it's a sort of quick fix to feeling good if other people respond with sympathy. It's not healthy, but they don't know any healthy way to handle those feelings.

No, we don't.

(Did you mean people who are feeling down, or people who are mentally ill?)

[alryssa.livejournal.com]

My understanding of it is anything but - in my experience, it's a method of control - when someone in such a mindset feels like they have no control over anything else in their lives, their body is the primary target for that control, which manifests not only as cutting, but anorexia, bulimia...

I've noticed that in most cases, attempts to offer sympathy will be refuted rather quickly, or the person will downplay it as if it's nothing.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

In my own case, I think that on some occasions it was a kind of self-punishment; on other occasions, it came out of overwhelming stress, and I think a need to somehow convey to others how distressed I was. On the worst occasion, I didn't cut, because just telling a handful of people that I wanted to was enough. Their sympathetic responses meant a great deal.

I know from my own experience that people with depression often feel extremely guilty about how our illness affects others and how we complain all the time. We tend to downplay it so as not to be any trouble. Often this only drives those around us even more wiggy.

(I'm only speaking about depression here - I can't speak to self-harm associated with other mental illnesses, such as eating disorders or personality disorders.)

[antikythera.livejournal.com]

Whaddya mean 'we'? ^^;;

I mean that it's a behaviour I've seen often in people with depression, myself included, and that's my interpretation of why we do it. It's a way of interacting with other people that can become a bad habit if it's being used in lieu of more proactive ways of improving one's mood. Which is better, being able to be forgiving and gentle with yourself in order to soothe your self-esteem, or publically beating yourself up until someone says "no no, stop, you're a good person"? It's not a good thing to be addicted to the latter.

It's not only seen in mindsets that we characterize as mental illness; people with temporary and lower-level depression can do it too.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Forgive me for my earlier, curt reply. The fact is, people with depression can be incredibly frustrating to deal with. Getting them to seek professional help is generally the best course, for them and for you!

[platypus]

I've done such things in the past, and they never had anything to do with suicide. Or with attention, come to that -- I never showed anybody, and even hid it from my doctor. I talked to a few people who I knew also did it, but only because I knew they'd understand -- not because they'd think I was cool. There was nothing attractive about it. The scars are ugly.

Physical pain is just so much easier to deal with, to understand, than mental-illness pain. Plus, physical pain is a hell of a distraction. There've been times in the depths of depression when I've wished I had a broken arm or something, so people could understand that, yes, something was wrong with me, I hurt, I needed to be cut some slack and given time to get better. I never injured myself deliberately in that way, to get that kind of reaction, but I can understand it. For me, shallow cuts in places where others couldn't see them were just... a way of transmuting one kind of pain to another. Giving it physical form. Making some endorphins, I suppose -- it is addictive, and it was a bit hard to stop. (It helped when I had someone else in the house who'd notice such things -- I didn't want that.) I eventually developed better coping mechanisms. My shrink and I never directly discussed cutting -- I'd quit doing it before I began to see her -- but I think she had some idea, and certainly helped me get on more solid ground.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that I think you're right. I think this sort of thing is widely mischaracterized and that's not helping the people who are actually suffering.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

It scares and angers me that people misunderstand it. :-( it's unpleasant to talk about it, but I'm glad I am.

Good to know it's in the past for you.

[ireactions.livejournal.com]

Hi, Kate. I told you there were LJ groups were people (I mean teenagers, but I suppose for the purpose of this discussion we must consider teenagers to be proper human beings) post images of their self-inflicted injuries.

Well... __cut, perfectscar ...

LJ is probably an excellent resource for educating one's self on the dementedly pointless things children and adults can get up to. I don't enjoy it, but forewarned is forearmed.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

OUCH!!!

Those comms are a mixture of kids in pain, struggling with their self-harm and wanting to stop it - and masochists. I am still flinching from just my brief visits. *ouch ouch ouch*

[ireactions.livejournal.com]

Even more terrifying are the pro-anorexia groups, where these children (and occasionally I mean in terms of maturity, not age) describe their lack of food consumption and hatred for having eaten so much as a crumb in unsettlingly obsessive poetry.

*eats more carrot sticks*

[rainbowjehan.livejournal.com]

And--I'm invading your post again, I'm sorry. Oh, dear. But--

When I was going through the worst part of my mental illness, I tended to do SIV (self-inflicted violence), but I'd always thought of self-harm as only cutting, so I didn't understand what I was doing. I wasn't ever using a knife. But SIVs include burning, cutting, pulling out one's hair, scratching oneself to draw blood, biting and cutting down one's nails, breaking one's bones, and I think a few other things. And during that period, what I did was I scratched my face hard, trying to draw blood, routinely tried (but failed) to smash my fingers with objects, and pushed myself into things to beat myself up. Which definitely counts. (Now I bite down my nails, which is extremely painful. >__< I'm trying to figure out how to quit, because my hands are always bleeding and they hurt; and my feet too.)

Now I know I do it partly from stress and partly for attention (I need a foot surgery that I don't know how to ask for, so the toe cutting is to try to mess myself up enough that's it's really really obvious to anyone, and someone will make me go. I hate knowing that rationally and still being unable to tell myself to shape up, but it's true); but then it was a form of self-punishment. I ate, so I was bad, so I needed to hurt myself so that I would understand hurting was associated with being bad. Then I wouldn't be bad, because it hurt. Needless to say, it didn't work. Neither did taking away clothes and jewellery if I gained weight, as a punishment.

There's a girl in my support group who does, or did, SIV, and her arms are so badly scarred all up and down that it makes me so sad to look at them. I just want to pet her and love her and hold her close, even though I know that won't help. On the other hand, she's wearing a lot more short-sleeved shirts now, and none of the scars look new, so maybe (maybe!) she doesn't do it now. I really, really hope so.

Hurting yourself hurts inside and outside your head, and it's scary.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

*a googol of hugs* I hope your shrink knows about this - he or she will have advice.

The Reach Out page includes some alternatives to actually hurting yourself - it's worth a look.

I've bitten down hard on my nails to distract myself from stress. I haven't chewed them down, though, thank heavens, because that is horribly painful.

I wonder if there's a less stressful way to ask for that foot surgery - perhaps you could leave a note somewhere where it will be found, or perhaps there's someone you trust who could ask on your behalf. (I once got Jon to ring up a specialist for me when I was too terrified to do so.)

[rainbowjehan.livejournal.com]

My shrink knows. ^_^ She's a wonderful lady, and she knows.

Thank you. ♥

I KNOW. XD It hurts so much! Don't do it!

Well, the reason I can't get it is because of my job--I can't get off from work to have it done. So I'm apparently trying to make it into an emergency proceedure. I suck. ^_^;;;

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Why you can't get time off from work?

[rainbowjehan.livejournal.com]

My schedule fails? ^^;;; Because we're so severely understaffed that I can't in good conscience take off, because it would mean my sweet, sweet coworker picking it up, and I don't want that. She is way to stressed already.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Oh - but she certainly wouldn't want you to hurt yourself! She'd be sad and worried that you went for emergency surgery, as well as having to cover for you, so she'd actually be worse off.

Maybe you could offer to cover for her in return, so she has some time off in return? Or maybe someone else could be found to help out temporarily?

(How much time do you need? I was amazed to be in and out of hospital in one day for my ankle op.)

[rainbowjehan.livejournal.com]

Since the job requires standing for periods of five hours, I'm going to need to three days for the foot to stop hurting before I can handle it. And I do offer to trade days. She's just so unbelievably nice. She never argues. she has no life. She just says 'okay. when do you need?'. I end up suggesting a fill-in date, and I just feel--so guilty. So. guilty.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

It sounds like it wouldn't hurt her in any way for you to have a few days off to get your tootsies sorted out - it won't inconvenience or stress her in any way.

The real problem is it hurts you to ask. I think I know what that's like. I feel guilty all the time about letters I haven't answered and things like that, where I feel like I owe someone something and I'm inconveniencing them and making them hate me. Even when objectively I know it's nonsense.

Do you feel like you could tell her you feel badly about swapping days? When I was too ill to travel to Melbourne with my parents-in-law last weekend, it helped me to tell them how badly I felt about the whole mess. They were very understanding.

You can arrange it all well in advance to make sure it's definitely convenient for her, and you could give her some flowers or chocolate frogs when you get back to say "thanks". (Do you have chocolate frogs up over? I don't think I've seen them.)

If I had to stand up for five hours, my bottom would fall off.

[rainbowjehan.livejournal.com]

The other part of it is that I work until the end of August, so I keep telling myself I just need to wait--once I'm off work, I'll have plenty of time to worry about my toeses. And that's logical, and smart, and a good solution. ^^;;; It's just that spoiled brat baby inside me wants it done NOW. NOOOOOOOOOOOW.

Although that's a very wise idea, and I think I'll do it anyway for her switching days with me this weekend. (WE DON'T! OMG. You have chocolate frogs? Omggggggg. We have chocolate kangaroos at the shadow grocery, but that's the closest.)

^^ I've run through three or four pairs of shoes with this job, because I keep wearing them to pieces. By 'stand' I really meant 'run around'. Either way on the feet.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

It sounds as though your feet are a crucial component of this job!

I'll send you some chocolate frogs if you're not careful!

[rainbowjehan.livejournal.com]

They are! ^_________^

...This is me totally pretending to argue.

Freddo frogs shall be yours!

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Email me your snail mail: korman@spamcop.net

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I got a really bad cold back in February, just when I was supposed to go in for my ankle op, and of course the anaesthetist said we should postpone. I had to wait another month. It was a real blow - I'd got used to the pain and inconvenience of my dud ankle, but I was really looking forward to getting it fixed, and I'd psyched myself up and everything. Life is so much better now my foot works again!

In short, if your foot is giving you gyp, there's nothing bratty about wanting to get it fixed! Especially since you're getting so much use out of the thing. (Teh INtarwebs should come with a treadmill so I can get some exercise.)

[rainbowjehan.livejournal.com]

I'd done that, too! I had a nice period to get it done, and then it turned out Mum switched jobs and we had no medical insurance, so I had to cancel.

Still, though. I really need just to wait. ^^;;; (That would rock! I would use it all the tiiiiiiiime!)

[alawston.livejournal.com]

Catching up on a flist backlog...

During my glittering teaching career (proof positive that the light that burns half as long does NOT in fact burn twice as brightly), there was frequent reference to a correlation between a character on soap Hollyoaks having one of her intermittent self-harming storylines and a sudden increase in pupils cutting their arms.

This came up EVERYWHERE I went, from the university to each of the schools I did a placement at and several of the dull conferences I was forced to attend.

I DON'T know whether the link was purely anecdotal or whether there was any kind of solid base to it but it may be worth checking out if you're still looking into it.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

That is interesting. It's possible, of course, that kids came forward because of the show, rather than more kids hurting themselves. Anywho, I'll see what I can find out.

[msconduct.livejournal.com]

What I am learning is that self-harm is common, but sometimes dismissed as mere attention-seeking. (There is a hugely obvious parallel here with sexual assault which I am just not getting into.)

They are probably also more closely related even than that. In a previous job I met a lot of women who had been sexually abused as children, and cutting was very common for them.